Dodge SRT Forum banner
1 - 20 of 22 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
160 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ive asked this before, but I was hoping some of you guys with turbo experience could answer this for me. Will running boost control, either EBC or MBC, wear your turbo or engine out faster? It just seems like the turbo works alot harder when you're boosting to 15psi all the time...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
534 Posts
Idontknow ifi'mthebest to answer this (sorry sometiems space bar doesnt work)....but I would assume that it would not kill ur engine or turbo...I'm sure it will do some extra wear...but nothing significant...i wouldnt suggest pushing it to red every gear either though...or if you do plan on doing it...just use more boost for racing, or when u feel like blowing shit's off the road. And then just turn it down on the days u feel Mellower!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
160 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thats harder to do with MBC from what I understand. And MBC is what I plan on getting....I have no idea how to install EBC.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
534 Posts
my friend just put a mbc on his wrx...all it is, is an fitting that goes in place of a solenoid or soemthing like that. He uses an allen wrench to adjust when he wants more or less. Or maybe i'm just retarted.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,786 Posts
at the lower boost settings the extra wear and tear is nominal.

once you get to the higher boost settings (18psi+) you'll need to take other precautionary steps to achieve that level of boost safely...such as added fuel and ignition components.....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,464 Posts
Yeah. Just chill with it at low boost for daily driver [if it's your daily driver] and crank it up whenever you feel like dropping a load on someone.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
160 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Is there someone in the DFW area that would install an EBC for $50??
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
474 Posts
I've used a few different types of manual boost controllers (ball/spring type). They all work the same... they hold back pressure to the wastegate (thus keeping the wastegate closed) so the turbo is getting full exhaust flow to the turbine (none bypassed through the wastegate) which allows it to spoolup as fast as it can. Once the MBC reaches it's set pressure point... the ball overcomes spring pressure (inside MBC) and lifts off it's seat and allows pressure to pass and head towards the wastegate. As the pressure builds at the wastegate, it overcomes it's own internal diaphram/spring pressure(between 4-7 psi usually required to overcome this internal spring pressure) and opens the wastegate built into the turbine housing to allow exhaust to bypass the turbine and go directly out the exhaust. This stops the turbo from spooling/boosting higher. Were you asking how the MBC worked?? :lol: :lol:

Anyway... the main problem people complain about with an MBC is part-throttle full(or high) boost. It is easy to acheive really high boost without being at Wide-Open Throttle (WOT). *Most* turbo ECUs are not programed to run high boost at part throttle... since they're often designed to read the O2 sensor (closed-loop) during non-WOT to give best fuel economy, etc. So it is possible to boost higher at part-throttle than the ECU is programmed to supply fuel for and that leads to a lean condition which if severe enough can lead to detonation and engine damage. At WOT... nearly all turbo ECUs are designed to ignore the O2 sensor (open loop) and dump a preset amount of fuel (preset from various cross-linked tables in the ECU code - boost/rpm/throttle position/intake temps/etc) which tends to be more than needed (on the rich side) for safety.

Since an MBC doesn't know weither your at WOT or not... it can't prevent it. Many EBCs are sophisicated enough to work around this issue... some read TPS inputs as well as boost inputs.

So what was your original question again?? :lol: :lol: (I sidetrack easily)

Oh yeah, will using one (EBC/MBC) wear out your engine faster?... If your setting your boost levels above the normal factory levels... then yes... your spinning your turbo faster for higher boost and your pumping more power through your engine... than it would otherwise stock. The question is... how much faster? That can't be answered... there are way too many other variables that play into engine wear. Proper servicing... proper fuel grades... how often you change your oil... conventional oil or synthetic... mostly highway or stop-and-go driving... extremely harsh/dusty/sandy driving conditions... and many more.

I would say... if your only boosting a few psi above stock or increasing your hp/tq mildly... that you're not going to noticably wear-out your engine faster. Proper monitoring(guages)/servicing/"taking care of it" will keep it just fine. Now if you take a 200 hp engine and generate 400 hp through it... yeah... it's gonna go much sooner than a stock one. And all stock engines (especially turbo engines) have performance buffers built in... ie. they're not operating on the ragged edge of self-destruction... so nudging performance level a tad higher into this buffer won't hurt a thing.

Man, am I long winded! :lol: :lol: Just my $.02
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
160 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thanks a million man!! That was the most informative post I've yet to read on here!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
474 Posts
PsychoMedic said:
Thats harder to do with MBC from what I understand. And MBC is what I plan on getting....I have no idea how to install EBC.
Both the MBC and EBC will allow you to boost however high you want so they both can *potentially* wear-out your engine equally as fast. Most MBCs are easy to install... one hose directly to the wastegate... one hose directly to a boost source (intake manifold or turbo outlet nipple).... that's it (besides the important tuning step). EBCs often require electrical hookups for power/lighting, in addition to the wastegate/boost source hoses... plus you have to run wires out from the cockpit to the underhood for the solenoid... so they take a little more effort to install... plus where to mount it on the dash.

Black_Rain said:
my friend just put a mbc on his wrx...all it is, is an fitting that goes in place of a solenoid or soemthing like that. He uses an allen wrench to adjust when he wants more or less. Or maybe i'm just retarted.
Yeah... the common ball/spring MBCs have a method (allen wrench/knob/etc) to tighten the pressure of the spring that holds the ball into it's seat. The tighter/more pressure on the spring... the more presure it takes to lift the ball off it's seat (since the spring is holding it down). This equates to higher boost levels.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,898 Posts
Has anyone proven that you get a lean condition when boosting at part throttle? I ask because the car runs so damn rich all the time anyways...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
stevessrt said:
Has anyone proven that you get a lean condition when boosting at part throttle? I ask because the car runs so damn rich all the time anyways...
TurboXS posted some AF ratio plots with their dyno plots. At 16psi they were sufficiently fuelled. I think they were using a AF ratio of 11.5:1 as 'safe'.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,843 Posts
stevessrt said:
Has anyone proven that you get a lean condition when boosting at part throttle? I ask because the car runs so damn rich all the time anyways...
i believe i have mentioned this more than once and hector has as well.. from 60% on up if you boost high it will start getting hot. either boost at wot or only do part throttle high boost for short periods of time.

for anyone that might know, is there a way to make an apexi not boost high unless at WOT?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
97 Posts
wasp-unless you use something like a throttle position controlled boost controller- I don't think so. I'm not too sure about the apexi, but I have a homemade throttle controlled boost controller. wastegate pressure (7-8 psi for the wrx) when not at that certain throttle position, then 15-16 when I hit that position. then in 5th gear- 17-18psi :shock: let's just leave it that the TD04 does not like that much pressure

as such, making such a boost controller means you have to tap into the throttle position sensor in the ecu

hope that helps a bit
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,898 Posts
BrianRT said:
stevessrt said:
Has anyone proven that you get a lean condition when boosting at part throttle? I ask because the car runs so damn rich all the time anyways...
TurboXS posted some AF ratio plots with their dyno plots. At 16psi they were sufficiently fuelled. I think they were using a AF ratio of 11.5:1 as 'safe'.
I imagine that there a/f ratio's where taken at WOT. What about part throttle/full boost situation. I dont think the engine getting a bit warmer is scientific enough for me. I know Hector has an a/f meter on his car, has he ever put an MBC on it and taken part throttle/full boost readings from it? Has anyone?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,843 Posts
at around 60-80% throttle and 15psi the car passes 1400 degrees and quickly heads to 1500, at about 1480 i let off the gas seeing figuring 1500+ degrees after the turbo is not a good thing. so yes, somebody has done readings.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,898 Posts
Okey-Dokey,...Thats good enough for me. I still at some point want to bring it to a dyno just to see exactly what the a/f really is. I wonder is a cooler plug would help?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
127 Posts
NeonWaSp said:
at around 60-80% throttle and 15psi the car passes 1400 degrees and quickly heads to 1500, at about 1480 i let off the gas seeing figuring 1500+ degrees after the turbo is not a good thing. so yes, somebody has done readings.

Where do you have your probe mounted? That's really pretty tame by comparison to a WRX that will run well over 1650 if you let it have full boost below 60%tps.

I have not experienced any issues with the open loop to closed loop transitions of this ECU. That doesn't imply that it doesn't exist, but in our somewhat limited development time it's not been an issue to worry about.

On the dyno, as soon as meaningful boost is reached (at less than WOT) the car drops into the 12:1 or below AF range.

I'll get some further information for you guys, but my off the cuff observation is that this is not the sort of problem it is for the WRX.
 
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top