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Which one of the 8 million shifters out there, is the best? I'm looking for one that has stops on the base that you can adjust or that are set allready so you can't overshift the tranny, this happened on my camaro about three times before I figured out what it was.
 

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The only 2 shifters currently on the market that have have positive stops are the Hurst and the Maddog. Both do the job, but I went with the Hurst at SummitRacing.com for $165.
 

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Maddog by far. PM Maddog for details. He has a few different shifters with different throw reductions. I believe a 50%, I have the 58% with the 1 inch cut off the top, he has a 70 and an 80% redux now. They are badass shifters. Highly recommend the Maddog.
 

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Why "by far" ? The Hurst is a billet aluminum piece and the company itself has been famously supplying factory Chrysler vehicles (and the entire racing community) with unparalleled performance shifters for around 40 years. As far as I know, the Maddog has more throw reduction options, but its made from modifying a stock shifter.

I'm sure they are both "badass" shifters. I'm not saying either is better, I understand the Maddog shifter was offered to the SRT-4 community long before the Hurst was, but I was just wondering why you say the Maddog is leaps and bounds better than the Hurst, when the Hurst is still practically brand new, and very few people have actually had a chance to get a hold of one.

On a side note, contrary to popular belief, excessively short throwing (high reduction) shifters actually require more force and provide stronger resistance to shifting during "difficult shifts" our NV T850 transmissions are famous for. Shifters are simply levers, so force and distance are inversely proportional. Shortening the distance will increase the force. Since Short throw shifters have a higher force/distance ratio, they will actually require more force from the handle and deliver more force to the internals of the transmission. That definitely doesn't help the often common problem of breaking the shift selector inside the transmission. Positive stops are HIGHLY recommended, but they only combat the excessive force being seen by the selector ONLY at the END of the shift throw. During the intial engagement where you're "finding" the gear, the increased force is still there.
 

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Maddog!!! :d
 

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phubarr said:
Shifters are simply levers, so force and distance are inversely proportional. Shortening the distance will increase the force. Since Short throw shifters have a higher force/distance ratio, they will actually require more force from the handle and deliver more force to the internals of the transmission. That definitely doesn't help the often common problem of breaking the shift selector inside the transmission. Positive stops are HIGHLY recommended, but they only combat the excessive force being seen by the selector ONLY at the END of the shift throw. During the intial engagement where you're "finding" the gear, the increased force is still there.
That's not how levers work. A short throw shifter means you have to push harder to get the same force in the transmission. You're still controlling how hard you push, and it's still resisting with the same force at the transmission. That force is just multiplied before you feel it in your hand. Stops at the lever prevent the lever from moving. If it's not moving, it's not moving the shift forks past their stops.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
This some awesome feedback guys thanks.
 

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hurst

phubarr said:
The only 2 shifters currently on the market that have have positive stops are the Hurst and the Maddog. Both do the job, but I went with the Hurst at SummitRacing.com for $165.
do you have any pictures of it in the car? i ordered one from Summit but it is on back order. \

and how do you like it?
 

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pitviper33 said:
That's not how levers work. A short throw shifter means you have to push harder to get the same force in the transmission. You're still controlling how hard you push, and it's still resisting with the same force at the transmission. That force is just multiplied before you feel it in your hand. Stops at the lever prevent the lever from moving. If it's not moving, it's not moving the shift forks past their stops.
You contradicted yourself by saying you have to push harder but you don't feel the added force in your hand. I know for sure thats how levers work (Isaac Newton's 3rd law of motion), but the dynamics for each particular lever are different. There's 2 methods for making a short throw shifter, you can either shorten the handle or raise the fulcrum where the shaft pivots. Obviously each method affects forces differently, the degrees of arc stays the same for the shortened-handle method, but changes in the raised-fulcrum method. Which method is this particular lever using?
 

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phubarr said:
You contradicted yourself by saying you have to push harder but you don't feel the added force in your hand.
Where did I say you don't feel the added force in your hand?
pitviper33 said:
That force is just multiplied before you feel it in your hand.
Multiplied by a number greater than one. Sorry, I guess I should have made that clear.
 

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I've been thinking about this for a while, and after sketching it out, I agree with you. Here is the explanation that you could've said which would have worked like a charm...

In the sketch, divide the lever into parts at the fulcrum (so there is a handle end and the cable end). Whether you shorten the handle end, or whether you keep the entire lever rod the same length and just raise the fulcrum point, you're still effectively making the handle end of the lever shorter.

Compare this lever to putting a long pipe over the end of a wrench to get more leverage and deliver more force to the head of a bolt. With this shifter, making the handle end longer will do the same thing as the extension pipe on the wrench, and deliver more force to the cables (and transmission). Based on that principle, making the handle end shorter will have the opposite effect, and you will lose leverage force and require you to put more force into the shifter to get the same movement on the cable end of the lever.

I would have been correct if the part that was shortened was the cable end. Kudos to pitviper33 for pointing out the mistake, well done. :thumbsup:
 

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pitviper33 said:
Where did I say you don't feel the added force in your hand?

pitviper33 said:
That force is just multiplied before you feel it in your hand.
Multiplied by a number greater than one. Sorry, I guess I should have made that clear.
Yes, actually a few of us still don't understand what you mean there. Could you explain?
 

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I don't have the Hurst shifter yet... Just like everyone else, I'm still waiting in line for mine from Summitracing.com. Summit's online order status page says they will get mine in on the 10th and of course ship it out the next day. I'll definitely take a bunch of pics of it to show everyone, its supposed to be a beautiful quality billet aluminum piece. This is the only picture I have of it...
 

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yup

phubarr said:
I don't have the Hurst shifter yet... Just like everyone else, I'm still waiting in line for mine from Summitracing.com. Summit's online order status page says they will get mine in on the 10th and of course ship it out the next day. I'll definitely take a bunch of pics of it to show everyone, its supposed to be a beautiful quality billet aluminum piece. This is the only picture I have of it...
in the same boat, they said the 10th when i called
 

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phubarr said:
Yes, actually a few of us still don't understand what you mean there. Could you explain?
Okay... let's say it takes 50N at the transmission to get the car into gear. That may be way off, but let's go with it. Linkages or cables or something carry that force back to the shifter. A post I saw earlier said something about cables, so I guess it must be cables on our car. I've never had it apart myself. Other cars I've worked on in the past use rigid links to do the job. So the linkage or cable carries that 50N to the bottom of the shifter. So now let's say there's 15cm of rod between the shifter's pivot and the attachment for the cable/linkage, and there's 10cm of rod between the pivot and the shifter ball. The ratio of those lengths, 15/10 or 3/2, means that there will be 3/2 times 50N at the ball. That means you have to push with 75N to get the car into gear.

Now, there is one problem with that. I think I read here or in another thread that our shifter doesn't go out the bottom of the car at all. If that's the case, there might not be room for that 15cm I assumed above. Also, I think there's more than 10cm of rod between the pivot and the ball. This means that the ratio might actually be LESS than 1. It may or may not still be less than 1 with a short throw shifter. I don't know, so what I should have said is that it's a ratio greater than the stock shifter's, not that it is a ratio greater than 1. Sorry for the mistake. Does that make any more sense?
 
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