S3 R vS. AGP kit
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Joined
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2,268 Posts
Ok...Sure I may be mildly biased because I have an AGP kit. However, this is MY take on it.
S3 Pro's:
-Millions of dollars to engineer
-Factory speed junkies designed
-Basically plug and play design
-Proven 11's with a gutten interior and slicks (Read SCC article)
S3 Con's:
-Non interchangable turbo (Again)
-5 bolt O2 housing which may prove difficult to adapt to aftermarket exhausts
-You will still have warranty problems because MOPAR PERF. IS NOT THE SAME AS MOPAR PARTS! You are not getting a Stage III for "show". You are getting it to row through the gears
-Too many people will "expect" 11's and be disappointed with the lack of results be it weather related, driver related, etc.
AGP (or any other kit's) Pro's:
-Turbo basics: Manifold, turbo, fuel
-Interchangable turbo
-Lot more boost and room to grow
AGP (or any other kit's) Con's:
-Lack of corporate millions for tests of every driving condition plausible
-Definite voiding of engine warranty
-Too much power (If that can be considered a CON)
-Install not for the faint of heart
The above is just a small list to get you started. But those are my views. Bottom line, I think people will spend a good amount of money on S3 and people will still bitch and gripe about getting issues while trying to get warranty work resolved. With an aftermarket kit, you SHOULD be able to spend less money, change turbos out for future upgrading, etc.
Good luck to everyone with this question on their mind.
Kris
S3 Pro's:
-Millions of dollars to engineer
-Factory speed junkies designed
-Basically plug and play design
-Proven 11's with a gutten interior and slicks (Read SCC article)
S3 Con's:
-Non interchangable turbo (Again)
-5 bolt O2 housing which may prove difficult to adapt to aftermarket exhausts
-You will still have warranty problems because MOPAR PERF. IS NOT THE SAME AS MOPAR PARTS! You are not getting a Stage III for "show". You are getting it to row through the gears
-Too many people will "expect" 11's and be disappointed with the lack of results be it weather related, driver related, etc.
AGP (or any other kit's) Pro's:
-Turbo basics: Manifold, turbo, fuel
-Interchangable turbo
-Lot more boost and room to grow
AGP (or any other kit's) Con's:
-Lack of corporate millions for tests of every driving condition plausible
-Definite voiding of engine warranty
-Too much power (If that can be considered a CON)
-Install not for the faint of heart
The above is just a small list to get you started. But those are my views. Bottom line, I think people will spend a good amount of money on S3 and people will still bitch and gripe about getting issues while trying to get warranty work resolved. With an aftermarket kit, you SHOULD be able to spend less money, change turbos out for future upgrading, etc.
Good luck to everyone with this question on their mind.
Kris
Joined
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1,255 Posts
There is a stage 3R kit:
STAGE 3R TURBO UPGRADE KIT
INFORMATION SHEET
DODGE SRT-4
PT# P5007864 - with Turbo Toys - Stage 0 to full Stage 3R with Turbo Toys
PT# P4510338 - without Turbo Toys - Stage 0 to full Stage 3R without Turbo Toys
PT# P4510339 - Stage 2 to Stage 3R upgrade kit (Stage 2 w/toys = Stage 3R w/toys, Stage 2 w/o toys = Stage 3R w/o toys)
THESE ARE THE ONLY KITS BEING PRODUCED, THERE WILL BE NO OTHERS DUE TO EXCEEDING EXPECTATIONS OF ORIGINAL DESIGN!
Stage 3 Turbo Upgrade Kit Components
(1) Stage 3 PCM
(4) 682 cc/min Fuel Injectors*
(1) 3.0 bar MAP sensor*
(1) 3.0 bar TIP sensor*
(1) Block-off connector for PCM
(1) Mopar TD05HR Turbocharger Assembly (with integrated exhaust manifold) and Penta-flange Exhaust Elbow
(1) Demand-regulated Fuel Rail Assembly
(1) 180lph Fuel Pump Module
(1) Fuel Rail Regulator Hose Kit
(1) Exhaust Gasket
(1) Exhaust Flex Joint Gasket
(7) Exhaust Manifold Bolts
(6) Oil/Water Banjo Fitting Sealing Washers
(1) Oil Return Line Gasket
(1) Vacuum Harness Securing Kit
* items not included in the Stage 3R upgrade kit
Recommended Upgrades
P4510647 Performance Clutch
P4510548 Blow-off Valve Conversion
W Speed-rated Tires
P4510461 Cat-back Exhaust System
NGK #4306 Spark Plugs (or equivalent)
Spark Plug Gap of .035"-.040"
There is no longer stage 3, its all one stage 3R. I thought that I remembered that originally stage 3R would have super sized 7xx cc injectors, but I guess thats out.
The AGP kit is going to be substantially less expensive, I PRESUME. The guess is that the mopar kit will be anywhere between $2,500-$4,500. Best guess is around $3,500 for a complete kit. The AGP kit is around $1,700 which will get you to 300hp, add a fuel kit for $900 and you can be around 375-425hp, depending on your tuning capabilities.
The mopar kit put out 369hp to the wheels in the only known dyno run (feel free to correct me) in SCC mag. That car has also run an 11.83 @ 119 mph. Keep in mind though that car was lightened around 450lbs or so.
Bottom line: mopar puts out around 370 hp to the wheels without tuning. AGP HEAVLIY relies on your tuning to get the numbers, but has a huuuuuuuge upswing on peak #'s. Cost is in AGP's favor. AGP makes a quality kit, as almost everyone knows, and I would imagine that the mopar kit is just as professional.
That said, I'm gonna start saving up for the mopar, because my SRT-4 is a daily driver that I can't afford to spend weeks tuning. If it were my 2nd car then I would go AGP GT40. Either way you get a great kit. You can also look at PSI-FI, but that's another thread...
STAGE 3R TURBO UPGRADE KIT
INFORMATION SHEET
DODGE SRT-4
PT# P5007864 - with Turbo Toys - Stage 0 to full Stage 3R with Turbo Toys
PT# P4510338 - without Turbo Toys - Stage 0 to full Stage 3R without Turbo Toys
PT# P4510339 - Stage 2 to Stage 3R upgrade kit (Stage 2 w/toys = Stage 3R w/toys, Stage 2 w/o toys = Stage 3R w/o toys)
THESE ARE THE ONLY KITS BEING PRODUCED, THERE WILL BE NO OTHERS DUE TO EXCEEDING EXPECTATIONS OF ORIGINAL DESIGN!
Stage 3 Turbo Upgrade Kit Components
(1) Stage 3 PCM
(4) 682 cc/min Fuel Injectors*
(1) 3.0 bar MAP sensor*
(1) 3.0 bar TIP sensor*
(1) Block-off connector for PCM
(1) Mopar TD05HR Turbocharger Assembly (with integrated exhaust manifold) and Penta-flange Exhaust Elbow
(1) Demand-regulated Fuel Rail Assembly
(1) 180lph Fuel Pump Module
(1) Fuel Rail Regulator Hose Kit
(1) Exhaust Gasket
(1) Exhaust Flex Joint Gasket
(7) Exhaust Manifold Bolts
(6) Oil/Water Banjo Fitting Sealing Washers
(1) Oil Return Line Gasket
(1) Vacuum Harness Securing Kit
* items not included in the Stage 3R upgrade kit
Recommended Upgrades
P4510647 Performance Clutch
P4510548 Blow-off Valve Conversion
W Speed-rated Tires
P4510461 Cat-back Exhaust System
NGK #4306 Spark Plugs (or equivalent)
Spark Plug Gap of .035"-.040"
There is no longer stage 3, its all one stage 3R. I thought that I remembered that originally stage 3R would have super sized 7xx cc injectors, but I guess thats out.
The AGP kit is going to be substantially less expensive, I PRESUME. The guess is that the mopar kit will be anywhere between $2,500-$4,500. Best guess is around $3,500 for a complete kit. The AGP kit is around $1,700 which will get you to 300hp, add a fuel kit for $900 and you can be around 375-425hp, depending on your tuning capabilities.
The mopar kit put out 369hp to the wheels in the only known dyno run (feel free to correct me) in SCC mag. That car has also run an 11.83 @ 119 mph. Keep in mind though that car was lightened around 450lbs or so.
Bottom line: mopar puts out around 370 hp to the wheels without tuning. AGP HEAVLIY relies on your tuning to get the numbers, but has a huuuuuuuge upswing on peak #'s. Cost is in AGP's favor. AGP makes a quality kit, as almost everyone knows, and I would imagine that the mopar kit is just as professional.
That said, I'm gonna start saving up for the mopar, because my SRT-4 is a daily driver that I can't afford to spend weeks tuning. If it were my 2nd car then I would go AGP GT40. Either way you get a great kit. You can also look at PSI-FI, but that's another thread...
Joined
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2,268 Posts
Whoops! Well then cats with aftermarket O2 housings may be out $100+ for that!evo77 said:You can remove that con because its already been stated the the 5-bolt flange is only for the manifold. The dp connection will be 4-bolt.
Kris
Joined
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11,152 Posts
If your "Go team go!" with all the mopar stuff, then get s3. Pop it in and fogetabout it.
If you want to be "Big boy on campus," then get a big turbo and have it tuned in.
If you want to be "Big boy on campus," then get a big turbo and have it tuned in.
Joined
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15,173 Posts
Rah, Rah!!! Sisboombah!!! Guys, before this gets out of hand, the poser of the question hasn't said what he wants out of his car. Without that info, all of this means nothing. Like Hec said, it's about this guy and his car. Nothing more.
"Better choice" depends on many factors. Better phrased as "Better choice for me"
Guys, before this gets out of hand, the poser of the question hasn't said what he wants out of his car. Without that info, all of this means nothing. Like Hec said, it's about this guy and his car. Nothing more. "Better choice" depends on many factors. Better phrased as "Better choice for me"
Joined
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704 Posts
Tunability is the big Pro for the AGP.
I still think pricewise the kits will be competitive. Yes the AGP kit is 1700. You still need some kind of a fuel system, E-manage, and a electonic boost controller. A wideband is advisable..... and lets not forget about the tuning time on a dyno needed...as well as the other supporting mods that should go with this setup.
Im sure the Stage 3 cars will be mean.... but in the end the big turbo kit cars are going to be the ones with the faster cars. 15g Vs a 50 or a 60 trim.... guess who wins!
I still think pricewise the kits will be competitive. Yes the AGP kit is 1700. You still need some kind of a fuel system, E-manage, and a electonic boost controller. A wideband is advisable..... and lets not forget about the tuning time on a dyno needed...as well as the other supporting mods that should go with this setup.
Im sure the Stage 3 cars will be mean.... but in the end the big turbo kit cars are going to be the ones with the faster cars. 15g Vs a 50 or a 60 trim.... guess who wins!
T3/T4 Turbo <-- cheap to rebuild
Mopar S3 Turbo <-- close to impossible to fix cheaply (no reverse rotation CHRA's available), good luck when you break the turbo.
Here's a question, what do you want?
FLEXIBILITY or PLUG AND PLAY? and another important factor is do you like to TINKER and learn?
That will answer the question whether the tuning barrier is required the entry of admission.
Mopar S3 Turbo <-- close to impossible to fix cheaply (no reverse rotation CHRA's available), good luck when you break the turbo.
Here's a question, what do you want?
FLEXIBILITY or PLUG AND PLAY? and another important factor is do you like to TINKER and learn?
That will answer the question whether the tuning barrier is required the entry of admission.
Joined
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1,705 Posts
I know that the Stage 3R car in SCC was lightened up a lot, but it did pull a 123mph trap in 70 degree weather. Off the top of my head, i can only think of a couple AGP cars trapping over 120. Most of the signatures of AGP users that I've read are 115-120.
And computer controlled boost, in all weather conditions, at all throttle positions? You just can't compete with that. How bout a bad tank of gas? Not to worry with the mopar upgrades. And the dial-a-boost? A boost controller that limits boost depending on what gear you are in, without switching buttons during the run. Stage 3R is worth every penny to me.
And computer controlled boost, in all weather conditions, at all throttle positions? You just can't compete with that. How bout a bad tank of gas? Not to worry with the mopar upgrades. And the dial-a-boost? A boost controller that limits boost depending on what gear you are in, without switching buttons during the run. Stage 3R is worth every penny to me.
Turbo Jeff - the Profec E-01 can do speed based boost (newer firmware rev), just like all the other high end EBC's. Yes, you have to tune it, but then again - one has the flexibility to do so.
The Turbo Toys limiting boost is speed based (calculates what gear you are probably based on speed). There's no gear info from the tranny.
The Turbo Toys limiting boost is speed based (calculates what gear you are probably based on speed). There's no gear info from the tranny.
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