I've heard of guys spraying with HOM. Rule of thumb is nitrous and HOM are bad news due to the advanced timing of HOM. I personally would not attempt it.lostkozjr said:
need some info..thanks
will my hom work with nitrous???because i heard that dosent work..
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From what Ive read the guys that have tried cant get it to stay in HOM the comp just kicks it out. But if you get it to work and she doent blow there would be people that would be interested.
there as a guy that sprayed s3 on hom and it worked for a little while. he had a 50 shot. i guess it made it through 3 runs on the dyno. then he took it to the track and went to spray in 3rd then it just popped. there have been a few that have done very little shots and were fine but anything over a 35 i would be scared. but i guess i cant talk much. i see 33deg of timing at redline and i still spray a 65shot. and next trip the the track ill be spraying a 100 so only time will tell for me.
D_MONEY said:there as a guy that sprayed s3 on hom and it worked for a little while. he had a 50 shot. i guess it made it through 3 runs on the dyno. then he took it to the track and went to spray in 3rd then it just popped. there have been a few that have done very little shots and were fine but anything over a 35 i would be scared. but i guess i cant talk much. i see 33deg of timing at redline and i still spray a 65shot. and next trip the the track ill be spraying a 100 so only time will tell for me.
Are you pulling fuel via you SAFC, then spraying on top of that tune setting? I ask because when I scanned mine (after install) I was about 28 degrees on a ZEX 65 which = 50 shot at the wheels.
yeah i spray on my regular tune. but i found that i could only run a 35shot without race gas. so when i go to the track i mix 5gal of 110 to about 2gal of 92oct pump. with nitrous on i spike 24psi. i also have wi running 100%meth. so far everything is safe. there is no knock but i havent upped the jet since i went to the 65shot. but its safe if you make sure you look at timing. and know your effective octane. with the wi and the 110 my effective octane is about 116 so im farly safe. the highest timing i see is 33deg and thats at redline when my boost have fell of pretty dramaticly.
D_MONEY said:yeah i spray on my regular tune. but i found that i could only run a 35shot without race gas. so when i go to the track i mix 5gal of 110 to about 2gal of 92oct pump. with nitrous on i spike 24psi. i also have wi running 100%meth. so far everything is safe. there is no knock but i havent upped the jet since i went to the 65shot. but its safe if you make sure you look at timing. and know your effective octane. with the wi and the 110 my effective octane is about 116 so im farly safe. the highest timing i see is 33deg and thats at redline when my boost have fell of pretty dramaticly.
Map clamps and SAFC's scare me. Yeah I know, I'm missing some power but eh, that's ok. Would it be possible to get the same results going back to your stock base tune for spraying, then tuning with the fuel jet? It sounds like you have the knock beat but just seems like a complicated way to do it.
I'm stupid so I can't depend on W/I and stuff like that. :jester:
well you could but if your boost spikes over 18.7psi then the pcm will pull timing. just a little food for thought das mopar when he ran 10's on s1 had a safc and was spraying. so was whitemoutain on his s3 car when he broke 10's. so if you plan on running spray and a good amount of boost then you should have a clamp or safc. you would be fine without wi if you run c16 or something close. i personally think most people should have a way to log timing and knock. so you might be able to get away with 110 or 107 if you have a way to look at those things. most people are paranoid over a couple of deg of timing. without any tuning and a 18spike i would get 29deg of timing on only 91oct. so most of my timing is from the wi not the safc. im sure when you are spraying if you use race gas you timing should be around 30deg. because of the cooling if the intake charge. so in closing i think most people if they are tuning there car already with a clamp or safc they shouldnt change what they are already doing. just change your fuel jet to get close to your street tune, but anytime you are spraying you should run race gas. or have a way to log knock retard and timing. it may take longer to get your car tuned crisp but i think most will be alot happier in the long run. btw sorry about spelling and puncuation in all my posts.
Dont be scared. Just spray and pray. I run a 150 shot of direct port. Granted i run a dedicated fuel line with a dedicated pump tank and fpr. But still....just go for it. Worst thing that happens is you blow it up. Then you go bigger and better the next time around.
Great post with great info. I can never comment on anyone's spelling and stuff. That would be the pot calling the kettle black. As you can see, my mods are pretty simple, If I stay the nitrous route I would look to optimize S1 and the nitrous. Again good post. Thanks for the info.D_MONEY said:well you could but if your boost spikes over 18.7psi then the pcm will pull timing. just a little food for thought das mopar when he ran 10's on s1 had a safc and was spraying. so was whitemoutain on his s3 car when he broke 10's. so if you plan on running spray and a good amount of boost then you should have a clamp or safc. you would be fine without wi if you run c16 or something close. i personally think most people should have a way to log timing and knock. so you might be able to get away with 110 or 107 if you have a way to look at those things. most people are paranoid over a couple of deg of timing. without any tuning and a 18spike i would get 29deg of timing on only 91oct. so most of my timing is from the wi not the safc. im sure when you are spraying if you use race gas you timing should be around 30deg. because of the cooling if the intake charge. so in closing i think most people if they are tuning there car already with a clamp or safc they shouldnt change what they are already doing. just change your fuel jet to get close to your street tune, but anytime you are spraying you should run race gas. or have a way to log knock retard and timing. it may take longer to get your car tuned crisp but i think most will be alot happier in the long run. btw sorry about spelling and puncuation in all my posts.
I'm not afraid of spraying the crap out of it:eveilgrin I just want to optimize my nitrous set up but keep things as simple as possible.:thumbsup:JollyGreen said:Dont be scared. Just spray and pray. I run a 150 shot of direct port. Granted i run a dedicated fuel line with a dedicated pump tank and fpr. But still....just go for it. Worst thing that happens is you blow it up. Then you go bigger and better the next time around.
ill be running a seprate tank and fuel system soon i have just been slacking on my pimp'n lately. thanks rhunter. but as for optimizing your s1 and nitrous set up. you already have a great kit to work with. with the mods that i have. you will have plenty of fuel but if i could do it over again i would just get s2 injectors without the fpm. i would not get a returnline because it would be pointless with the s2 injectors. you will have more than enough fuel for stock turbo. but i would defiantly do the fuel pump rewire and 255 pump. once i get the fuel tank im building done i plan on selling them for cheap to other forum members that are serious about nitrous. i dont want to do too many of them but i think it will be a very inovative product when its all said and done.
Explain why it is pointless to have a returnline with S2 injectors?
well if he is running stock turbo then he wont need any more fuel. i was just giving my opinion on what i would do. also when you put the fpr to a boost referance it will be alot harder to tune the nitrous. yes your tune will be fairly close because of your normal tune but in my experiance. the jet in the fuel line tends to respond wierd when you start to add pressure fairly quickly. it will get rich jumps. but if working along with a standalone or a progressive controller you can tune most of it out. again that was just my opinon on what you should do with stock turbo.
No, with a 1:1 regulator its just like tuning with any regulator on nitrous. When do you start spraying? At WOT and no sooner than 3000rpms (duh). By that time the 1:1 regulator has peeked on boost pressure and you have a steady flow. On the dyno or the street, make sure your under full turbo load before the nitrous hit. That keeps the guessing to a minimum. Its just as the stickys say, tune it the nitrous as a separate power adder.
Thats how I got 398hp. And we used my DTEC to give fuel at the "hit". It was going lean for about 500 rpm. We got it to spike no more than 13.0 and help an 11.5 on 93 octane with NOS booster.
Thats how I got 398hp. And we used my DTEC to give fuel at the "hit". It was going lean for about 500 rpm. We got it to spike no more than 13.0 and help an 11.5 on 93 octane with NOS booster.
well i dont really want to get into it but there can be more power had when the nitrous comes on at 3k rpm when still building boost. my personal preferance would be to use the stock regulator for as long as possable if i was spraying. so i personally would only use a rrfpr on a big turbo car anyway, which would build boost much later than the stock turbo and then you would need a way to tune as the pressure is coming up to spool that big bitch. i know you are supposed to tune them separtly and you basically proved my point during your post just you choose to tune for your full flow at peak pressure. that is why you have that terrable lean spike. if you had a progressive contoller you could tune that out so you dont pop you motor any time soon. do you have a way to log timing or are you just praying and hoping. because last i remember you are running at least a 100shot and with only 93 oct and a nos octane booster there is no way you are under 8deg of knock retard even with a good tune you will still be knock all over the place.
I do not have a way to log timing that I know of. Unless my DIS-2 can. How do you log?
And the way my dual stage controller is set. My window is 4k-6k. The first 75 shot hits in second and the second 100 shot is combined with the first in 3rd gear and stays that way til the 1320 mark.
The DIS-2 can be setup to retard timing on my second stage. When it see it engaged, it pulls, but not before. I'll have to research it more. It is not operational yet and I have not had the chance to test my DynoTune contoller or the first stage. My numbers below are off a Zex rated 150 shot and due to low bottle pressure/misc. only neted 130hp gain.
And the way my dual stage controller is set. My window is 4k-6k. The first 75 shot hits in second and the second 100 shot is combined with the first in 3rd gear and stays that way til the 1320 mark.
The DIS-2 can be setup to retard timing on my second stage. When it see it engaged, it pulls, but not before. I'll have to research it more. It is not operational yet and I have not had the chance to test my DynoTune contoller or the first stage. My numbers below are off a Zex rated 150 shot and due to low bottle pressure/misc. only neted 130hp gain.
well you do have a contoller then. first you need to get yourself a aeroforce gauge. it will log timing, knock retard and you can put two analog inputs ie wideband. im sure you are knocking like crazy. but as for you progressive set your window at 3k off at 6k then with your ramp set it to build slow then once at full spool or where ever you afr's flatten out make sure you are at peak then, that will take out most of that lean spike you have and ease your mind on not popping the motor. even the strongest motor if tuned poorly will knock itself to death. as for the big shot pull 2deg from engagement to redline and see how that does then mess with that at a later time. but make sure you have the aeroforce gauge before you spray again, like i said in a differant post i was getting 8deg of knock retard which is alot on a 50shot and there were no detonation marks at all on the plugs. so basically it is pointless to read plugs on a srt you will more than likely already be knocking before you see anything. if you are going to spray before getting the gauge then atleast have 5gal of 110 or higher for your engines sake.
Good point. BTW that controller is not a progressive unit. And I'll start my timing pull at about 6deg and give back a little at a time on a dyno tuning session.
well if you are going to run that big of a shot then you should really have a progressive. but if you dont you could do what you are saying and basically use the msd unit to help tune the nitrous. but the msd dis2 is sometimes unreliable so i hope everything goes well. but before you spray again you need a way to look at timing and knock retard so please go out and buy a aeroforce gauge. btw you can get a cold fuison progessive for 199 and it has a built in digital window.
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