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I was driving around, running some errands and I realized after a few uncomfortable attempts "How do you heel-toe in this car?" Do you guys have any tricks or is the pedal setup just not adequate enough for it? Maybe my uncle needs to get some adjustments done. Can't autocross w/o heel-toe :(
 

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I do it all of the time. It's more of a side-of-foot-toe. Put the ball of your foot on the brake and use the right side of your foot to blip the throttle. It takes some practice, but you can do it. My feet are not unusually large. :wink:
 

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ok, i'm an idiot. what is heel-toe shifting?
 

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CJ said:
ok, i'm an idiot. what is heel-toe shifting?
It's a way to downshift while braking, "blipping" the throttle to raise the revs before letting the clutch out. Just like you normally would, except you're braking at the same time. A little tricky, but a good skill to have.
 

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As a beginner stick shifter, I have to ask, what's the benefit of this?
 

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Okay this is whats happening:


Im in 4th gear and I slow down before I get into a turn. Just before I get into a turn, i clutch and shift into second and give the car gas so it hits about 4k rpm and then i let go of the clutch. THe engine speed matches the rear wheel speed so you get no jolt when you get off the clutch. IM now in the turn and start accelerating at the APEX of the turn.


If you dont heel and toe, you will excellerate at the exit of the turn.

I cant do it as good on my srt. I had it mastered on my supra. I had the shifts on my supra down to where you could not feel me sift. Felt like an auto.
 

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When you downshift, you want to briefly give a little throttle ("blip" it) before letting out the clutch, to raise the RPMs, so that the car doesn't jerk when you do let out the clutch.

Not only is that sudden jerk annoying, if you are travelling at high speed (say through a turn) it can trigger bad things to happen like oversteer (a rear end slide).

If you are braking, and you want to downshift so that you will be in the right gear when you start accelerating again, you either need to take your foot off the brake (which is not always possible or desirable) or heel-toe shift.

In autocrossing, when you are braking hard into a turn, and want to accelerate as quickly as possible out of it, it's important.

But it's kind of like juggling. You're steering, braking, controlling the clutch, and the throttle all at the same time. It takes practice.
 

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coolpixer said:
Hey,
Anybody know how to do a 'torque brake' with manual trans ?

Just curious if anybody does it

I assume this is holding the brake and giving the car gas with an ATX. The reason people do this with ATXs is to get the engine up to the desired RPM for the best possible launch. You don't need to do this on a MTX. With a MTX you can take off at whatever RPM you want.
 

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Yes! Another Space Ghost fan. I thought I was the only one. lol Sorry to get off the subject but Zorak rulz. I bet he can heel/toe shift just fine.
 

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Exhaust Depot said:
Im in 4th gear and I slow down before I get into a turn. Just before I get into a turn, i clutch and shift into second and give the car gas so it hits about 4k rpm and then i let go of the clutch. THe engine speed matches the rear wheel speed so you get no jolt when you get off the clutch. IM now in the turn and start accelerating at the APEX of the turn.


If you dont heel and toe, you will excellerate at the exit of the turn.
That's not heel toe that's rev-matching. Heel Toe is when you hit all the pedals at the same time.

JC
 

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OK, while we're on the subject of shifting,
when really getting on it, as in racing the 1/4, what is the best method for shifting. I know it is a basic thing, but I also know there has got to be proper way to do it for maximum performance.

How do you handle the throttle between shifts? Do you immediately slam the throttle once in gear? Do you come off the throttle as soon as you are about to press the clutch?

I know these are noob questions, but what the hell. :roll:
 

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paul544 said:
OK, while we're on the subject of shifting,
when really getting on it, as in racing the 1/4, what is the best method for shifting. I know it is a basic thing, but I also know there has got to be proper way to do it for maximum performance.

How do you handle the throttle between shifts? Do you immediately slam the throttle once in gear? Do you come off the throttle as soon as you are about to press the clutch?

I know these are noob questions, but what the hell. :roll:
With this car, unless you have slicks, slaming on the throttle is bad for times. I speed shift, but diffinatly dont power shift (shifting without taking your foot off the floor) This car takes a lot more finesse and drivers skill than say, oh a WRX. :twisted:

As far as heel - toe, I cant do it cause me size 13's dont fit right. I use the ball of my foot for the brake, and roll the edge onto the throttle. I am still working on it.
 

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AWD OWNZ U said:
Exhaust Depot said:
Im in 4th gear and I slow down before I get into a turn. Just before I get into a turn, i clutch and shift into second and give the car gas so it hits about 4k rpm and then i let go of the clutch. THe engine speed matches the rear wheel speed so you get no jolt when you get off the clutch. IM now in the turn and start accelerating at the APEX of the turn.


If you dont heel and toe, you will excellerate at the exit of the turn.
That's not heel toe that's rev-matching. Heel Toe is when you hit all the pedals at the same time.

JC

ARe you sure? Why will you hit all 3 peddles at the same time? I know i use my heal and toe when im going around a turn and it works great. IM accelerating out of the apex where as back in the 101 days i would accelerate at the end of the turn.
 

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Exhaust Depot said:
ARe you sure? Why will you hit all 3 peddles at the same time? I know i use my heal and toe when im going around a turn and it works great. IM accelerating out of the apex where as back in the 101 days i would accelerate at the end of the turn.
How are you using your heal and your toe? You are only hitting the clutch and the gas? Unless I'm mis-understanding your post. Heel toe is so that you can rev-match and brake at the same time.
 

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like dro said, its not heel-toe in the srt! pedals are too close, i agree fully about using the side of your foot, just thought you'd all like 1 more opinion :)
 

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I can heel-toe it allright, I actually did it better in my Frontier :roll:

I don't use the side of my foot. I slide my right foot as far up on the brake pedal as possible and punch the gas with my heel. I kinda twist my foot a bit, like freakish its hard to explain.
 

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Wow. There is so much mis-information out there, I'm not gonna try to correct everybody some of you had it mostly right - just a few snags. If you had it right, good job, but this is what heel-toe is:

Heel-toe is a technique for downshifting - more accurately labeled "Double-clutch heel-toe". The phrase comes from over 40 years ago, when many race cars had the pedals arranged so that the brake was on the right, the clutch on the left, and the throttle between them, and about 6 inches lower. when braking, a driver would move his heel over to "blip" the throttle - hence, "heel-toe".

What you are doing is, while braking, double-clutch downshifting.
Double-clutch downshifting is when you,
1. put the clutch in, take the car out of gear, let the clutch out
2."blip" the throttle - just tap it shortly - enough to get the rpm's up
3. put the clutch in, put the car in the lower gear, let the clutch out.

why do you do this? It's kinda complicated, but I'll try to explain simply. You know that feeling you get when you don't do this? the car jerks a little, or even chirps the tires if you let the clutch out too fast? It's because the shafts that are spinning at different speeds have 'synchronizers' - parts that make the lower gear spin faster so that when the teeth on one come into contact with the other, they are in sync.

It puts a lot of strain on the transmission to do this - so you rev the engine to get the RPM's up to where they would be in the lower gear. The main reason this is an issue for racecar drivers is because most racecars don't have any synchronizers. For street driving, it's just better for your car, and makes a downshift smooth.

Heel-toe doesn't work very well on the SRT-4, but it can be done. I bent my brake pedal over to be closer to the gas for easier heel-toe (actually, you're using the side of your foot, for those of you who don't like to read the entire post). Ideally, the gas should be right next to the brake pedal when you're doing moderate -heavy braking. Hector is right, (Exhaust Depot) - the main purpose of heel-toe is to get you into the right gear to accelerate out of a turn when racing - but it can be done in a straight line, too, as a down shift to save brakes. Really though, in racing, the brakes slow you down, not a downshift.

Just so you know - I'm learning more every day - I'm still a n00b in a lot of areas, but I read Skip Barber's book, "Going Faster: The Art of Racecar Driving" - everything in this post is from it. I would reccomend it to everyone, even if you don't want to be a racecar driver - it's got a ton of info for even the most knowledgeable. Hope this helps everyone - sorry it's so long.
 
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