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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Alright im trying to get good handling performance, for now i have done:

Eibach Pro kit lowering springs
ES endlinks w/ polyurathene bushings
DC front and rear strut bars
22mm Perrin rear sway bar with polyurathene bushings

What else am i missing? i want to get my car stiff aswell as handle good. now my question is if i have a 22mm rear what size should i upgrade the front to as it is still the stock 24mm? should i leave it that way and just buy the 24mm polyurathene bushings? after the upgrade i plan on getting the bwoody H brace and the bwoody crashbar support to stiffen up the chassis some more.
 

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how does the car handle right now? what are your driving skills like? a stiffer front swaybar will increase the tendancy to understeer. A good set of struts, like the tokico illumina or the koni yellow inserts, will help the handling more than an upgraded swaybar.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Well i took a turn that wasn't to sharp at a good speed and it started to oversteer pretty bad, the car actually drifted LOL i regained control but it wasn't fun. So i figured adding a larger sway bar will even it out. I might pick up a 29mm hotchkis but how would the car act with a 29mm-22mm setup?
 

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I would go with the largest front you can find :lol: This is why I don't think people should just install an upgraded rear swaybar without taking care to balance things out and have the skill to keep the car in control if something like this happens. no offense, though. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
LOL yeah it oversteered pretty damn quick but seriously would you recommend learning the car better with my setup or just picking up that 29mm or would that be overkill and just go with a 26mm?
 

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almost lost control w/ the 22mm rear only? odd.

my setup:

ebay strut bars F/R
tokico illuminas set to 5 all around
mopar springs
ES master bushing kit
progress 22mm rear SB.

it is VERY neutral handling w/ a touch of oversteer, unless you force it.

i know it scared you, but learn to drive the car. learn its limits, and know your boundaries. and w/ that, the way you perceive the cars handling will extremely change.

if you didnt like the oversteer, i suggest just getting the PT front sway. a 29mm front is overkill, especially w/o a larger rear sway.

if you get the pt front, it should make the suspension remain pretty neutral handling for you, though i believe the the 22mm rear only is extremely controllable. but everyone drives diff.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Also the street was dusty, Since their building new homes and its nothing but dirt out here. That coulda been the reason also.
 

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26mm front, 19mm rear. I'd like to get the car on a rack and swap back to the stock front bar. I'd like to get a little better weight transfer and less understeer from mid corner to the exit and with what I have available this is the best option for me. Tire pressures are at their prime and the only thing I could do would be play with alignments and I don't have the ability to play with that and test it in a reasonable timeframe. With the current setup it does understeer in most situations, but I was able to get a hint of rotation at the last event in a couple of corners, and the slaloms were damn good. Only problem was getting weight shifted under braking and transitions (think high speed offset followed by a tight 90° turn) and then getting the power down out of a few turns. The course was a little dusty from mid corner to exit from race tire guys laying down rubber and creating marbles all day so that was my main problem with the creation of understeer on corner exit. It's much easier for me to dial out and deal with oversteer when at an event than try to get rid of understeer while keeping the tires from overheating.
 

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Driving style can be a factor too. If you brake early and then power into the turns ( a old school FWD technique ) you may find it still pushes at the limits. Trail braking and Power applied should be tried out to see where you are.

You may tighten it up for entry to find it will not turn well off a corner. Also you have to choose when you want it to turn best. Fast sweepers or tight autocross course? Makes a difference in tuning. For the high speed stuff you will want a softer rear sway bar then in a autocross course.

Don't forget to look into alignment changes as well.
 

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SlowSRT05 said:
Well i took a turn that wasn't to sharp at a good speed and it started to oversteer pretty bad, the car actually drifted LOL i regained control but it wasn't fun. So i figured adding a larger sway bar will even it out. I might pick up a 29mm hotchkis but how would the car act with a 29mm-22mm setup?
Once I figure out the friggin' TLLTD equation, I can tell you how much understeer you have on your car with all of those mods. But I can tell you how much oversteer you're getting through sway bars.

By moving from the stock rear 17 mm to 22 mm, you increased stiffness over stock by 180%. Your front sway bar is now stiffer than your rear by 42%. When you were running the rear 17 mm and front 24 mm, your front sway bar was 297% stiffer than the rear. You will want to be in the 150% range to be safe.

If you get only the Hotchkis front 29 mm sway, they will be stiffer than your rear 22 mm sway by 202%.
But if you get both front Hotchkis sway and rear sway (29 mm/ 24 mm) the fronts will be stiffer than the rear by either 161% (rear at softest setting) or 128% (rear at stiffest setting).

Currently with your stock front sway, you've put your car very close to 50% TLLTD which means brink of oversteer everytime you turn the wheel. And this type of oversteer is serious enough that you may possibly not be able to correct it through opposite lock. So I wouldn't recommend messing around on the street until you get bigger front sways. But you probably already figured that out. lol
 

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If Stowaway is running 26 mm front, 19 mm rear

Currently, he's 250% front stiffer than rear.

Stock front sways are 297% stiffer than rear. That's only a 47% difference. That will still give you a lot of understeer. Remember, shoot for the 150% range.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Ok so what size should i bump the front to so i can be within the 150% Range?
 

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i find this whole 150% guide to just be a suggestion, and opinionated.

as you can see, stowaway is running "250%" up front, while my front is only "42%" stiffer.

its a matter of driving style, technique, and ability.

go to driving school. best susp. mod. that or lay off of the hard jerking cornering that will induce uundersteer.
 

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these proportions are subjective.
change tires and/or temperatures that day and it's all different.
 

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my bwoody hbace stiffened the shit out of my front end and my megan racing coilovers just made the whole car feel super stiff in the corners
 

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christian! said:
i find this whole 150% guide to just be a suggestion, and opinionated.

as you can see, stowaway is running "250%" up front, while my front is only "42%" stiffer.

its a matter of driving style, technique, and ability.

go to driving school. best susp. mod. that or lay off of the hard jerking cornering that will induce uundersteer.
150% Is agressive yet suitable for street driving. It's also a suggestion made to me by someone 5th in the nation in autocross and his friend who is 3rd in the nation at autocross. So it's actually a pretty good suggestion. lol

If you want to try to prove me wrong, ask anyone who's running Hotchkis sways. The majority will say that at the softest setting (161%), you can induce oversteer if you really trying to. That's 11% above the 150%. But at the stiffest setting (128%), people say to be careful. If you can, you should really try to stay 150% or above. It's a good foundation to use for when you get adjustable shocks to induce or reduce oversteer.
 
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