[DAN_3KVR4_SRT4]

Anybody ever do this on any vehicle? I have the general idea down, and the purpouse to kick out the rear I assume, but what would be the proper technique, and why would you need and want to do this in an AutoX. Thanx fellas.

 

[Kustomatix]

"Granny shifting, not double clutchin' like you should.."

 

[DAN_3KVR4_SRT4]

LOL, funny, but realy, got an answer? I know alot of the drift guys might be able to enlighten me. And that double clutching thing, never got that either lol.

 

[Kustomatix]

Ill try to get MinAtWot to come post, he thinks he can so it better than anyone:lol:

 

[DAN_3KVR4_SRT4]

thank you lol.

 

[johnnyfive]

Anybody ever do this on any vehicle? I have the general idea down, and the purpouse to kick out the rear I assume, but what would be the proper technique, and why would you need and want to do this in an AutoX. Thanx fellas.

haha kick out the rear at an auto-x without the parking brake...that shit ain't happening. :lol:

No seriously though heel-toe downshifting is a technique in which, while pressing the brake to slow for a corner, you bilp the throttle with part of your foot in order raise the engine RPM so that it will sync up with the driveline without the engine having to speed up or slow down. Thereby not placing any load on the tires driving the vehicle.

While in a RWD car this is done to prevent oversteer by the engine essentially slowing the rear wheels. A FWD car should do this as well to prevent a sudden understeer condition.

You will want to do this in any auto-x that will require you to downshift back into 1st (or 2nd if the course is big enough) to go into a tight corner.


double clutching is when you literally press the clutch pedal twice to shift either up or down. Most racers, who know what the fuck they are doing, only use this method to downshift.

You see in most true racing cars they don't have synchronizer rings as we do in any modern street car.

In order to downshift without grinding or messing up the tranny they must:

1. press the clutch in to release the car from gear
2. go into nuetral
3. let the clutch out for the input shaft to reengage it to the engine
4. rev the engine to sync up to driveline speed
5. press the clutch back in to disengage the input shaft from the engine
6. downshift to next gear.

complicated eh? this can be done in less than a second with practice.

Infact all this happens under braking so many real circuit racers driving things like a barber dodge or formula ford are double clutch-heeltoe-downshifting.

Although it can get a car into gear a little easier modern street cars (like 60's up or so) don't need to be double clutched.

 

[dsmfan95]

double clutching is when you literally press the clutch pedal twice to shift either up or down. Most racers, who know what the fuck they are doing, only use this method to downshift.

No, most racers use the heel-toe while downshifting. Slightly different technique.

And with these cars you can't heal toe unless you have a size 7 shoe because the center console is too close to the gas pedal.

 

[bobesser]

I heel toe with my pinky toe. I am not too good, but it does work. I don't see how the center console is an issue at all.

Bob

 

[gdflys]

No, most racers use the heel-toe while downshifting. Slightly different technique.

And with these cars you can't heal toe unless you have a size 7 shoe because the center console is too close to the gas pedal.

Wrong. I heel toe/double clucth every down shift in my car. It's easy after lots of practice you could do it too.:readclose While they are two different actions doing both together gets you through a turn without upsetting the car in the correct gear for the corner exit, ie in the power band and puts less strain on your syncros. I think with all the broken input shafts and other tranny problems around here maybe more peole should be protecting their trannies.

Dan the whole point is to be smooth through a turn ,not upset the car so you get the most traction (lateral g's) and be int he right gear for powering out of the corner. Drifting or steping out the rear is exactly what you don't want to do. Believe me if you want the rear to swing out wide try downshifting to a lower gear and don't rev match or heel/toe double clutch. If your at the turn limits in a rwd car you will spin as soon as you release the clucth. In a fwd you'll plow stright ahead.

 

[DGR8srt]

i also heel n toe size 10.5 feet you cant really use u heel but the side of your foot works well if you know what you're doing ......jus one warning do it without shoes i've worn a hole in my rug :crying:...... where can i get a replacement??????

 

[gdflys]

That's what floor mats are for. Preventing holes in the carpet and covering holes already there:jester:

 

[DGR8srt]

ooops my bad i meant floor mats the hole is in it......you can see it standing up by the door

 

[alexf20c]

Heel/toe downshifting in normal driving is fucking stupid. If I know I'm coming to a stop, I'll put the bitch in neutral and coast. I only leave it in gear if I know I'm gonna have to speed up again, and even then I don't always heel/toe.

The only way heel/toe can be easy/efficient is if you're HARD on the brakes. Otherwise, the brake pedal is a few inches above the throttle so it's not exactly the easiest thing to heel/toe. When you're at max braking, however, the brake pedal will be even with the throttle. I wear a size 10 shoe but I just roll my foot to blip the throttle. The pedals on my S2000 are close enough to allow this; I don't know what it's like on an SRT-4.

Double clutching in any car that is equipped with synchros is even stupider. That's exactly what the synchros are for: To synchronize the speed between the input shaft and the main shaft. If you think for one second that double clutching will help save you from breaking an input shaft, you're sadly mistaken.

 

[gdflys]

Heel/toe downshifting in normal driving is fucking stupid.
Double clutching in any car that is equipped with synchros is even stupider.

Wow I guess I'm really really stupider then.:rofl: Stupid is as stupid does sir.

I guess you never have had to replace brake pads for wear. I guess you also have never worn out a syncro. Maybe your just lazy and don't do things that are "hard". I do it during normal driving to reduce brake wear (engine braking)and syncro wear(double clutch rev match). If your doing it right it causes little to no wear on the clutch. Also if you have ever driven an SRT-4 in cold weather especially a 03 you almost have to double clucth/rev match to get the thing into 1st, 2nd, or 3rd. I do it while tracking the car to kick your S2000's ass.:eveilgrin

The SRT-4's pedals are positioned fine for heel toeing during normal or hard stops. I never said not double clucthing would cause you to break an input shaft. I used that as one of the examples of tranny abuse you know kind of like how forcing the car into a lower gear will wear out your syncros.

 

[stowaway]

I heel/toe downshift in daily driving quite often. With all of the idiot drivers out there I don't like to be unprepared (sitting in neutral) if someone does something that could endanger me.

 

[mhunsr]

IMHO heel/toe shifting matches the RPM's with the engine speed, which will save driveline stress. I know you can et away without rev matching for a while, but don't come whining here when you brake something because you down shift and dump the clutch to slow the car. It's your car, but I would recomend at least rev matching to protect it. Heel/toe shifting is a technique that I use and I have never had a problem. To the contrary, learning how to do this has saved me a couple of times. If you want to do Auto X, learn to do this.

 

[htheduck]

Normal driving: little to no brake, then a rev match or a neutral coast-(I don't mind brake wear.)
Track driving: heel and toe. (I don't mind brake wear here either :lol: )

 

[alexf20c]

Wow I guess I'm really really stupider then.:rofl: Stupid is as stupid does sir.

I guess you never have had to replace brake pads for wear. I guess you also have never worn out a syncro. Maybe your just lazy and don't do things that are "hard". I do it during normal driving to reduce brake wear (engine braking)and syncro wear(double clutch rev match). If your doing it right it causes little to no wear on the clutch. Also if you have ever driven an SRT-4 in cold weather especially a 03 you almost have to double clucth/rev match to get the thing into 1st, 2nd, or 3rd. I do it while tracking the car to kick your S2000's ass.:eveilgrin

The SRT-4's pedals are positioned fine for heel toeing during normal or hard stops. I never said not double clucthing would cause you to break an input shaft. I used that as one of the examples of tranny abuse you know kind of like how forcing the car into a lower gear will wear out your syncros.

Brake pads wear. So do clutches and synchros. Get over it. I've had to replace all, but that doesn't mean I'm going to heel/toe when I don't need to, much less double clutch. The wear/tear you're preventing by heel/toe-ing and double clutching in normal everyday driving is negligible. The worn synchros (which need to be replaced) and the fried clutch are more caused by an idiot behind the wheel, rather than not double clutching like you should.

As for having to double clutch and/or rev-match an SRT-4 in the cold... By all means, go ahead and do it if you have to. In this case, faulty mechanical equipment requires it. If everything is working like it should, and the driver knows what he's doing, there is absolutely no need to double clutch. You probably do it because you think it makes you look cool. There's nothing more retarded than somebody heel/toe-ing through each gear just to slow for a traffic light. Maybe you like to hear the backfires? "Dude, those backfires mean my car has a lot of horsepower!"

Sure, you pass S2000s all the time on the track. Whoopdeedoo. Most of the S2000-driving populace is a fucking retard ricer who's whole world revolves around the 9000rpm redline and the supposed superior handling. Funny then, how they seem to lap slower than stock Hyundai Tirburons.

My S2000 is not stock, and no, you can't beat it.

 

[alexf20c]

I used that as one of the examples of tranny abuse you know kind of like how forcing the car into a lower gear will wear out your syncros.

I don't engine brake in normal driving, so how does this affect me?

 

[minilowz]

That's what floor mats are for. Preventing holes in the carpet and covering holes already there:jester:

Both of the autocrosses(yes I'm still a noob)I've been to, they made me take the drivers side floor mat out, "for safety reasons". Oh well, as far as the backfires, I like the sound, kinda like the annoying ass BOV plate, I like the sound, sometimes I just do it to piss off the wife.