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Discussion Starter #3
Yes 100%

I did use Torco Accelerator (Unleaded) for a few years with no issue. Then (for some reason) it wouldn't prevent KR and it would separate out in the can rather quickly. Maybe the QA got away from them.

Went to Race gas and never looked back. Great product IMO.
 

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Does it provide more power without making changes in tunes?

They're using MMT's as the primary octane booster, which is nothing new in fuel. In fact most unleaded fuel already uses it today just in lower concentrations.

What peaked my interest was this phrase:
"The oxygenates that are used in RACE GAS are not derived from alcohol (like methanol or ethanol) and therefor do not damage fuel system or engine components."

So I'm curious how they're oxygenating the mixture. I didn't see any mention of MTBE. Alcohol is by far the most common since some areas banned MTBE's. Perhaps they're using ETBE's?


I may give it a try to see if HOM holds just to see if it works as advertised.
 

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Would be nice for the track. Or track events to use. I have 93 out here. So 2 ounces of the "race gas" per gallon. To get 97 octane. 32 ounces in a can. So that would treat 16 gallons for around $40 shipped. (guessing on shipping)

I might just switch to e85.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Does it provide more power without making changes in tunes?

They're using MMT's as the primary octane booster, which is nothing new in fuel. In fact most unleaded fuel already uses it today just in lower concentrations.

What peaked my interest was this phrase:
"The oxygenates that are used in RACE GAS are not derived from alcohol (like methanol or ethanol) and therefor do not damage fuel system or engine components."

So I'm curious how they're oxygenating the mixture. I didn't see any mention of MTBE. Alcohol is by far the most common since some areas banned MTBE's. Perhaps they're using ETBE's?


I may give it a try to see if HOM holds just to see if it works as advertised.

Does it provide more power without making changes in tunes?

I’m sure this question can be answered many different ways. This is the best way I can answer your question. Feel free to shoot a hole in it.
I’ve been tinkering around with Turbo Dodges since 1993. Done many modifications some worked, some not so much. If you address the structural integrity of engine/trans components. The only limiting factor (at that point) is fuel. Address the fuel requirement for said application and you’re in good shape. Regardless what tune you have and what you’re asking the engine/car to do, you have to have good fuel.
With that said, what has Race Gas done for me? It’s given me 100% confidence or call it insurance whatever. When I’m at WOT/Full boost I’m not concerned about knock and I can shift my concerns in other directions.

I also own an 86 GLHS and when Race Gas is used in that car. I can honestly say the idle quality is better, starts quicker and seems more snappy (if you know what I mean) when driving around town.
So yea, try a can and see what you get. My advice, follow the mixing instructions and don’t over octane the blend. I’ve had success doing just that and never been disappointed.

I’ll try to answer your question on ETBE's? But not tonight…

Good luck and happy motoring
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
What peaked my interest was this phrase:
"The oxygenates that are used in RACE GAS are not derived from alcohol (like methanol or ethanol) and therefor do not damage fuel system or engine components."

So I'm curious how they're oxygenating the mixture. I didn't see any mention of MTBE. Alcohol is by far the most common since some areas banned MTBE's. Perhaps they're using ETBE's?


Race Gas does use MTBE as an oxygenate. EMTBE is an alcohol derived version of MTBE and has the same hydroscopic issues as ethanol, so they (Race Gas) don’t use it.
While MMT is one chemical they use to increase octane, there are actually three chemicals that get used in concert to increase octane. As a result, far less MMT is used than other products to create the same effect.

Race Gas (105) contains the following: (Reading off the back of the can) 2-methoxy-2-methyl propane (1634-04-4), Heptane (64742-49-0), Methylcycolopentadienyl manganese tricarbonyl (12108-13-3), Toluene (108-88-3), Petroleum hydrocarbon (64742-94-5)


The above is what I found. Hope this answers some of your questions. Apologies' in advance for any spelling errors on the chemical names. Thanks!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I am wondering which to try, Ultra or Regular. They say not to over octane if not needed. Hmmmmh!
I use the 105 (regular) because it best fits what I'm trying to do with the car. And it meets the power goals Id like to obtain.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
My horse power (and torque) goals are essentially Mopar Stage 3 HOM levels. Race Gas (105) more than covers that spectrum.

650 horse out of the 2.4 would be an amazing accomplishment. Not knowing your combination and assuming the boost levels/RPM would be on the high side. And your tune is spot on, Race Gas Ultra would be a safe (and smart) bet. Not just from a performance prospective but also consider protecting your investment. My opinion.


650 HP wow that would be fun...
 

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Ultra was what I was thinking too!! Thanks!!
Well this is the 5th rebuild over the last 13 years (try to forget stuff like that) and a lot of time, heartache and money like you said. Used to run a 50/50 mix of C16 and 93 back in the day on the first engine. Could have been the dyno but it made 670 with that mix and it was a lot of fun, until the failures started. I am not worried about the tune and RPM will be limited to 8K. Using a standalone ECU and a Lot of other mods to support that HP number. I think boost will not be more than 40 but we will see as this car doesn't seem to like the dyno and I am just trying to enjoy it being a 'weekender'.
Thanks for posting this BTW.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
No problem

Good luck with the build...
 

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Will this stuff turn your spark plugs orange like Torco? Or leave any sort of deposit or residue? Wonder if it helps with ethanol too. Since our BP out here has up to 10% ethanol in their 93.
 

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Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
Will this stuff turn your spark plugs orange like Torco? Or leave any sort of deposit or residue? Wonder if it helps with ethanol too. Since our BP out here has up to 10% ethanol in their 93.


From the Race Gas Web Site: "I noticed that my spark plugs have an orange dust on them after running RACE-GAS in my tank. Are my plugs fouled or scorched?
[/I
No! The dust you are seeing is the bi-product of burning fuel with manganese. This dust does not affect plug or exhaust components in any way.
If you are old enough to remember burning leaded fuel, or look at the plugs from someone burning leaded racing fuel, you will see a greyish white dust on the plugs and exhaust pipes. This is the bi-product burning leaded fuels. This dust has no effect on plug performance and will not damage the engine either.
To insure that this dust doesn’t affect engine performance we have been burning fuel blended with RACE-GAS in many cars for the last 3 years. We have added RACE-GAS to every fill up in a Toyota, BMW, VW, Porsche and a Ford for 3 years with no negative effect on the plugs, catalytic converter or O2 sensors).
 

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Okay going to buy a can of either the Torco or the "Race-Gas"

We have 93 octane out here. So with the "race-gas" I would need 10 ounces of the product to make 5 gallons 97 octane

With Torco fuel accelerator I need 8 ounces to make 5 gallons of 98 octane.

torco is $23 for 32 ounces with free shipping on ebay

Race-gas is $34 with free shipping for 32 ounces.

Numbers are better with Torco. But not sure if it is a better product.

I see Dave you had an issue with the Torco separating in the can, what do you mean by that? Was it just an old bad batch of it that might of not been stored correctly? And that was the main reason why you switched along with it not helping with KR?
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
Hey man

1) Separating in the can, the best way I can explain that is this. The heavy deposits sank to the bottom and the lighter stuff rose to the top.
2) Was it just an old bad batch of it that might have not been stored correctly? I would purchase Torco in the box, 6 cans to a box. Never opened a can until I need it and was always stored away from direct sun light.
3) And that was the main reason why you switched along with it not helping with KR? Yes, that is correct.


My normal routine: Pull a can out of the box, give it a light shake then pour it in the tank. Then fill said tank with about 5 gallons of fresh 92 pump gas. That method worked for a few years no issue. The next can I opened up (to verify any issues or operator error) I put it in a clear glass container and was surprised to see the result. It looked like half mixed Italian dressing. So with that, I moved to the next can. This time I shook the @#it out of it. Poured it in another glass container and it was normal. Keep in mind I never had to do this before.

I reached out to Torco via email and phone calls but never got any response back. Maybe it was a bad batch? Bad Q/A on that run or week? In any case Race Gas had just released its product so I gave it a try. Has worked ever since and yes I still give their product a good shake or two just for good measure before pouring it in the tank. Race Gas customer support is spot on and has always answered any of my questions quickly.

Answer your questions?
 

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Emailed race gas,

Thank you for your inquiry. Please see the writ up below. I think it will answer your questions.

This document is designed to highlight the major differences between RACE-GAS Race Fuel Concentrate and its primary competitors. These competitors include:
* Torco Accelerate
* Boostane
* Commercial Octane Boosters like NOS or Outlaw +104

The first difference is the design intent of the products. RACE-GAS is designed to be a direct replacement for commercial racing fuel. In order to accomplish this, RACE-GAS needs to accomplish 3 goals:

1. Raise the octane rating of the fuel to that of commercial racing fuel
2. Raise the chemical energy, (BTU), of the fuel to equal that of commercial racing fuel
3. Raise the chemical oxygen of the fuel to equal that of commercial racing fuel

RACE-GAS is the only product on the market that can accomplish these three things. So why is this important?

* If you raise the octane but not the chemical energy the engine will be lean at wide open throttle which will damage the engine.
* If you raise the octane and not the chemical oxygen the fuel will not be completely burned on the power stroke. As a result the remaining fuel will detonate on the exhaust stroke which will lead to burnt valves and higher exhaust manifold temperatures, which will damage the engine.

Next let's look at Octane. There are three octane numbers used in the US. Research Octane Number or RON, Motor Octane Number or MON and Anti Knock Index.

* Research Octane Number, RON, is the octane of the fuel in a test engine at idle. This is a poor representation of octane as it doesn't account for the engine under load, (like real world driving). This is always the higher of the 3 numbers.
* Motor Octane Number, MON, is the octane of the fuel in a test engine under load / higher RPM. This is a much better number than RON because it is a better representation of real world driving.
* Anti-Knock Index, AKI, is the RON Number + the MON Number divided by 2, (R+M)/2. The AKI Number is the number that is used to determine the octane of fuel for sale in the US, (Check out the gas pump the next time you fill up. It will say either AKI or (R+M)/2.) The AKI number is the better octane number because it takes into account the octane under load and not under load.

Our competitors do not tell their customers what octane they blend to. The truth is they blend to the Research Octane Number. Why do they do this? Because it is very easy and cheap to raise the RON number. Basically just provide a large amount of MMT in some solution like Kerosene. It makes for a higher profit margin but an inferior product.

RACE-GAS blends to the AKI Number. We do this because this is how commercial racing fuel octane is rated. In order to do this we have to have a much better engineered product, with components that raise to octane together rather than a big gulp of MMT. We have over 70 components that raise octane in different chemical "pathways", not just MMT like our competitors.

RACE-GAS is a much more expensive product to make however we use much less MMT than our competitors. This is important as too much MMT will create deposits on the valves and heads. RACE-GAS does not.
 

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Just run boostane. It doesn't settle out like most of the products out there. My friend runs it in his twin turbo 350z that makes way the hell over 700hp.
 

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Great band, I think a little underrated, I didn't appreciate them back in the day like I do now... I have some strong memories during that time period and I believe Fuel's music takes me back to that time. Hemorrhage is probably their epitome in the music sense, but Falls On Me and Shimmer were also very good. Some may disagree, but Bad Day was just tripe garbage, in my humble opinion.

I tend to get them confused with the band Tonic, a slightly lower octane version of the band Fuel >:)
 
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