Dodge SRT Forum banner
1 - 20 of 337 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,691 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Ok, I know there alot of you that are ready for some results, Let me say that we collected ALOT of data. Its going to take Dave a day or 2 to put everything together..

But, I can give you some initial info to wet your appetite...

All of the numbers here are PEAK hp numbers, there will be other things like power under the curve, spool up time, etc.. You'll be able to see that with the upcoming graphs...

We only had time to test 2 cars. 1 bone stock car and 1 stage 2 car with most of the bolts ons. The second car represents what alot of people have I would imagine, or close..

We had 5 intercoolers. Stock, CCA, CTI, AGP Race (full size), Spearco (Full size)

We only tested what we could get. You'll probably find alot of the other brands of intercoolers are one of the above anyways... Plus the range we had will represent pretty much the whole spectrum. What I mean is I doubt that theres any intercooler that flows more that the spearco, and I doubt anything will flow less than the CCA (yes, it flows less than the stocker). So If we didnt test your intercooler, it wont matter all that much. It will fall into the range we have here most likely.

We tried to keep the testing as fair as possible. Our dyno had the luxury of temperature and pressure probes, so we placed them before and after each intercooler, and it was all data logged. We also kept the tire pressure to 34psi, and we checked after every few runs so tire pressure would not skew the results. (The tire pressure goes up alot with temp, making HP numbers higher. I had to take out about 6psi total over the course of the test for just 1 car)

Ok, for a secondary flow test, we used a leaf blower and a low pressure gauge. This was an informal way to measure how well the core flowed... This is all from memory, but luckily I have a photographic memory :) The numbers are inches of water. The numbers themselves are not interesting; it’s the range between each that is interesting...

Higher is worse... (again, from memory, so may not be 100%)

CCA = 7.7
Stock = 7.2
CTI = 6.2
AGP = 6.0
Spearco 4.9

So you can see on the initial flow test the spearco flows quite abit more than the others. Which make sense as the spearco cores are know for excellent flow. Note, the CCA was worse than stock as far as flow...

Ok, Now for some Initial Dyno results.

Ok the Stock srt-4, they we're all pretty much the same, within a few hp up and down. I won’t bore you with any more details on this car because a large IC on a stock car is well, pointless from a performance standpoint. And we all pretty much guessed that even before the test.

Things got more interesting on Dave's Stage 2 Car (20psi of boost)

We had a maximum span of about 18whp, (253 to 269) up and down, with the stock intercooler in the middle. A surprise here was the superior flowing Spearco scored the worst HP wise (253hp) and the stock unit did well (260hp). Top honors went to the AGP unit at 269. The CCA and the CTI were in between 260 and 269. All pretty close with the exception of the Spearco.

Ok, I know this doesn’t sound right... We all thought the same.... as far as pressure drop and temp drop across the core; we did see a huge difference tho...

For example, the stock intercooler had an inlet temp of 190F and outlet of 135F Kinda hot... the CTI, CCA, AGP units had the same 190F coming in and around 50-60F coming out. The spearco was about 70F coming out. So you can see there were alot of differences in cooling performance.

As far as pressure drop, the CCA was the worse at around 3psi, the stock was around 2.5. The CTI and AGP were both close at about 1psi. and the spearco was about .5 psi. Again, rough numbers.

The issue we see is that the very good flowing intercoolers (spearco) didnt cool as well as the other because the air spends less time in the IC because its flowing so fast. Where as some of the more restrictive intercoolers cooled the air charge better because the air spends more time in the core. So you have 2 factors, Flow and Temp drop.

The interesting part was with the stock intercooler vs all others. Outlet temp on the 20psi car was 135F and all the other intercoolers were in the 50-70F range, so clearly the stock intercooler doesn’t have a large cooling capacity. Its quite small compared to the others. However the HP didn’t change all that much. Why? The car's ecu... We saw almost the same HP numbers with 50F air going into the motor as opposed to 135F air. Boost was not being altered as dave's car has a manual boost controller, and the inlet temps were all right around 190F. What happens is as the air gets colder the ecu adds more fuel. Very interesting indeed. If the incoming air got hotter or lasted for longer durations (Road Racing conditions) I'm sure power would fall off much faster using the stock IC.

My opinion is that the stock turbo just doesn’t have the airflow to really help a large IC. some small gains can be had, and if you were running in 90 degree heat the hp margin may have grown a little. A large IC does certainly drop the incoming temp buy a large margin. That is clear.. If you have control over the fuel system you would probably see a decent HP change with the large IC's and the much colder inlet temps. The ecu is pretty smart it turns out :)

Again, there are alot of outside factors that can change things. We did a test in a room with probably 60F heat. We also did not have time to test a large turbo car. This will be continued in a part 2. This is just a sample, Dave will have all the data posted in a day or so...

Side note, the Stock car had IC inlet temps around 130F, the stage 2 car had temps around 190F. the turbo is really being pushed at 20psi as you can see.

Conclusion., There was a huge difference in the pressure drop and temp drop of all the intercoolers, but there wasn’t all that much of a HP difference. On a hot day it would probably be easy to get the stock unit hot enough under roadrace conditions to cause the ecu to pull back power, Where as all the others dropped the temps quite dramatically. Basically keeping the ecu from dropping power from heat...

Also, a large turbo car would probably do better, we will see..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,017 Posts
ah, yes, but i read the whole thing ;)

thanks for the results...

intresting to say the least..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
890 Posts
So what would you say is the better of the IC's if you include flow, cooling, power, price?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,691 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
SDSrt-4 said:
So what would you say is the better of the IC's if you include flow, cooling, power, price?
That is probably more opinion based. If you are on the stock turbo I would say a CTI is the best upgrade. Or just simply add water injection to the stock unit. The speraco was too much money, and the CCA flowed horribly, The AGP and CTI were very close performance and money wise, but the AGP was ALOT heavier. The CTI unit also does not require cutting or notching of the bumper cover.

AGP was around 31lbs
Spearco was around 20lbs
CTI was around 18.5lbs
CCA was around 18lbs
Stock was around 8 lbs

Stock bumper bar was around 18.5lbs
CTI bumper bar replacement was around 8lbs
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,186 Posts
Very interesting.. I definetely got to see the big turbo FMIC shootout. I am now confused on which FMIC to replace my CCA with my 60-1.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
236 Posts
I was thinking about these tests after i left and i know time is limited but i would have loved to see an agp direct fit if someone could have come up with one, Also i would have liked to see back to back hot runs. I figured the stock turbo car wouldn't gain or lose much from the results but i am suprised to see the spearco do worse hp wise than stock.

PS Spearco for sale will trade for............anything LOL.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,186 Posts
Im wondering what the spearco will do with a big turbo.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
236 Posts
I wonder if the better flow would eventually benefit it but i would guess not. What i would like to see is the reason for the better flow, my guess is lack of cooling fin density internally, makes me almost want to cut the thing open. Also just for test reason i would like to see a straight pipe no intercooler, might not be the healthiest thing but it m ight be interesting.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,138 Posts
Also one big thing That I want to say is the AGP race is huge and heavy.. They never thought of this with design to fit some sort of supporting member. The test car we took it off of only had it on for a few month and it was already cracking the frame where the intercooler mount connects to.. AGP time to do some homework and get a brace to support your Heavy Intercooler.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,691 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Ultimateone said:
Phil the CTI did 5.8 to 6 on the leafblower test, I watched every single time you did it.
Yeah, I was just going by rough numbers, the CTI and AGP flowed very similar.. Once we see the pressure tests on the dyno you can get a better idea.

I'm also wondering if water injection is even needed on a big intercooler car, the temps were very low on most compared to stock...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,842 Posts
Wow, its a tradeoff then. A better flowing intercooler means less pressure drop BUT it means the air spends less time in the intercooler to be cooled. So whats the lesser of two evils then? According to the test, for a stock turbo car, people should pick the intercooler that has the least flow rate so it cools the air more instead of looking for which core and endtakes "flow" the best.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,943 Posts
All in all I wish we did jeans car or even mine if I had brought it, I think the difference could have been a step above I suppose...

The day was fun though...
Dave blowing apart the tube, the fire..
Phil and all his gadgets...
The absolute demolishment of teh CCA and poor Matt :lol: ...
I hate absolutely hate those three bolts holding the bumpers on...right Martin - Matt!!..
JSP trunklid...wow...
Josh is back...
Tim is still a funny bastard..
Nivo and Jean late!!! - Jean has a Migraine
Blinky's TC looked balls..
Rich you still on 95 North? :rofl:
Willy is the man...Burgers, couplers, weldedbeaded pipes in seconds..
Martin is really a Vtechnician..
The other Martin with the 2 screws fixing the cracked steel...yikes..

so much more

Poindexter
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,161 Posts
nice post hehhe this should be sticky, good buying helpguide for those with diff setups
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,331 Posts
CCA 3psi pressure drop? No problem, just turn up the boost! You'll then have a budget FMIC that cools the air almost as well as a $650 unit! CCA is GREAT!

BTW, my CCA is for sale, unrated reasons of course ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,331 Posts
There's another surprise to the spearco...Your opinion about the ecu going richer when it see's colder temps...I'd think the spearco with it's warmer temps would actually GAIN hp, since it's 30% warmer the ecu would want to lean out some...

Mopar engineers>all
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,691 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Bacardi 151 said:
There's another surprise to the spearco...Your opinion about the ecu going richer when it see's colder temps...I'd think the spearco with it's warmer temps would actually GAIN hp, since it's 30% warmer the ecu would want to lean out some...

Mopar engineers>all
Yeah, In reallity It seems the large IC cools too much (stock turbo). It's too bad we didnt have anyone bring a smaller direct fit intercooler, that way you could get the added flow over stock with out the severe temp drop... This way you keep your crash bar...

And yes, it would seem the mopar engineer did them homework very well :) This is probably why the staged kits just add a spayer at higher temperature. The stock intercooler actually works quite well... Just can't keep up with sustained high temps.
 
1 - 20 of 337 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top