[Exposed]

I'm having the exact same problem as described in this thread:
http://www.srtforums.com/forums/f169/smoking-idle-help-blown-turbo-292562/?highlight=smoking+idle

I've recently noticed that if I drive for a while, then shut off the car for a small bit, and restart the car the exhaust would start smoking heavy, and then clear after I start driving. It only smokes during a short stop like this, it doesn't smoke at first startup in the morning or after several hours of being parked.

Typical example would be stopping at a gas station. As soon as I get back into the car and start it up, a smoke screen appears.

This is indicative of a turbo seal problem. I have the 3147 kit which I purchased as part of the Christmas sale, but didn't install it until about a month ago. It was installed by Howard aka RedSpeedFreak with my assistance. Turbo was installed properly and broken in properly for 700 miles. Boost never saw any higher than 19psi so far (used the 10# spring the first week before adding a MBC).

I didn't really notice the problem until I put a full 3" side exit exhaust last week, where the exhaust fumes was practically hitting up my face :jester:. Prior to that I had the 2.5" Mopar catback.

We checked the spark plugs and did a compression test. Spark plugs looked fine (no sign of running too rich or too lean), and compression was 175 for #1, and 180 for #2, #3, and #4. Compression test was done an hour after driving normally.

I'll go ahead and give AGP a call tomorrow. Turbo is under warranty but it sucks to go through something like this, especially with the downtime about to be involved.

 

[[email protected]]

99% of the time if a turbo is smoking at certain times, it's going to be a drain issue. Most likely it's a PCV not working properly, but sometimes it's the breather side that isn't venting enough, something kinked in the oil drain from the turbo to the block, or just abnormally high crankcase pressure.

If the turbo was smoking ALL THE TIME, we could put the blame on turbo.

Check all the things that I mentioned, and I am quite confident that your problem will go away.

 

[Exposed]

I'll check those items and get back to you Ben.

 

[Exposed]

OK with the help of the forum member that did the install, we checked everything that you mentioned. PCV valve, breather, drain tube, checkvalve all appear in good shape. Here are some pics that I've taken:

And also a video of the smoking:
http://home.test-afl.tulix.com/sammy123/Exhaust.avi

If it looks like something isn't installed properly please let me know. Everything still points to a turbo seal issue.

 

[[email protected]]

1. Check the turbo for any shaft play.
2. The smoke looks white to me.
3. Quick test. Let the car idle and start smoking, then pull the oil filler cap off for about 20 minutes and see if the smoking clears up.

 

[[email protected]]

What's that thing going into the intake from the PCV line?

 

[Exposed]

I won't be able to pull out the turbo until Friday, but I'll perform the other steps you mentioned.

That's the check valve your looking at.

 

[[email protected]]

you dont' need to pull the turbo to check shaft play.

 

[[email protected]]

That's the check valve your looking at.

Does it work

 

[slwsrt]

yes the check valve works not tryin to rain on ur paraide ben but this has happened on 6 turbos i have seen in the past 6 months its the rear seal of the turbo that is bad needs to be fixed

 

[Exposed]

I wanted to pull the turbo to take some pictures and check for oil leakage. I'll perform your recommended steps and get back to you.

Check valve is brand new and put on after the car was already smoking.

 

[RedSpeedFreak]

I guess I'm going to have to throw my piece in here, seeing as I did the work.

1. I've installed many AGP turbo kits over the years, only recently have I seen this kind of problem with turbo seals dying.

2. This is a brand new turbo and turbo kit from AGP. This turbo has less than 1000 miles on it.

3. The car did not smoke for the first 2 weeks with this turbo on it; nor did it smoke with the stock manifold/E1 combination before.

4. Compression test is good, motor is fine.

5. This turbo has not seen more than 19psi. For the entire first week, this guy drove it around on just the 10psi spring and didn't floor it the first time until he'd already put about 200 miles on it. Also, Exposed drives like a grandma (haha), so I know he didn't push this thing hard; he barely floors it anyway.

6. I threw the check valve on there for him after your comment about draining and crankcase pressure. Yes, the checkvalve works, I've made several before. They keep boost out of the crankcase, but still allow vacuum to be pulled. Essentially, that is all the PCV is anyhow.

7. I asked Exposed to post the pictures, so that you could see the oil drain is not kinked (and really, how could you even do that? You give us the perfect length to keep it a nice curve down to the oil pan). I was also hoping that you would take a look at the pictures, see there is nothing out of the ordinary and take care of business.

Exposed is not trying to scam you or cause a big stink here in your forum. He simply has a brand new turbo, less than a month old, which hasn't even been pushed hard yet, that is already smoking like crazy. The turbo seal is bad; he just needs this fixed or replaced under warranty.

 

[Exposed]

Thanks for the posts. I'm sure AGP's outstanding customer service will prevail.

Howard is right though, I do drive like a grandma :jester: The MBC was set to 16/17psi with a slight creep up to 18/19, but since the smoking issue I've been reluctant to punch it. :jester: And Howard knows I've been dying to put on the 725cc injectors I bought from Aaron and raise boost, but I do need to get this smoking issue taken care of first.

 

[OrangeKyle]

sorry to hear that sam.

 

[corvette303]

how do u know that the seal is blown,besides the smoke???

 

[[email protected]]

Who says anyone is trying to scam me? I've been building and rebuilding turbos for 14 years, and 9 times out of 10 when this happens, there is nothing wrong with the turbo. I just want to have you guys check everything first that could be causing a problem so that I don't get the turbo back here and there is nothing wrong with it.

By the way, there is no such thing as a seal in a turbo that goes bad. If you say it's bad, send it in and we'll check it out. I have no problem taking care of it. In my experience, 90% of the time there is nothing wrong with the turbo.

 

[[email protected]]

The breather looks kinked going into the intake, but it may just look that way in the picture. That could definitely cause the turbo not to drain properly.

 

[RedSpeedFreak]

Who says anyone is trying to scam me?

If you'll look, it says "Exposed is NOT trying to scam you"...

I've been building and rebuilding turbos for 14 years, and 9 times out of 10 when this happens, there is nothing wrong with the turbo. I just want to have you guys check everything first that could be causing a problem so that I don't get the turbo back here and there is nothing wrong with it.

This is exactly why we've posted pictures and been thorough with our descriptions of what we have done. I may not have been working on turbos for 14 years, but I've been through two blown turbo seals myself already, one on the stock turbo and one on my old AGP 60-1. Being my daily driver, I just took it down to a local shop and the guy put a new seal in for free. No more smoke after the new seal.

By the way, there is no such thing as a seal in a turbo that goes bad.

Better tell these people then, they seem to have it all wrong...

Turbo Failure Chart



Main Trouble Shooting 2

Sealing device for a turbocharger - US Patent 7334799

Turbocharger Oil Seal Leakage Explained - RX7Club.com

If you say it's bad, send it in and we'll check it out. I have no problem taking care of it. In my experience, 90% of the time there is nothing wrong with the turbo.

We wouldn't be here if it wasn't bad. We'd be turning up the boost and tuning the car. I think in this case, at least 95% of the turbo is fine; just this one little part is ruining our fun.

 

[[email protected]]

I'm not trying to downplay your experience with turbos at all. I am just trying to save you all time and money. Heck, there might be something wrong with the turbo. I don't know because it's not in front of me. I'm just giving suggestions of what my experience is. You can take that any way you wish.

I've never called the rear piston ring a seal, and don't know why anyone would call it a seal. It's a piston ring that sits stationary in the bearing housing while the turbine shaft's groove rides around it. Turbo builders can debate tomato/tomahto for the next century as well. If you want to call it a seal, we'll call it a seal for simplicity's sake.

If I remember correctly, the car doesn't smoke all the time. If there was something wrong with the seal, it would most likely be leaking oil all of the time, and the car would be smoking all of the time. Since you found some diagrams and you know what this seal is and looks like, please tell me what you think is wrong with it that it would seal some times and not other times.

I am not in any way trying to argue, fight, e-slap you on this subject. I really would like to hear what you think happened to the seal.

 

[slwsrt]

ok if its not a seal then when the oil was to go threw the cartrige then it would instantly leak into the exhaust so there has to be some kind of seal there to keep the oil from going threw both sides i have seen this on my agp 50 trim twice and then on a dbb 50 trim which has been doing the same thing since day one everything u said to do was done to it and it still smokes no hose from breater to intake no smoke out the valve cover just out the exhaust where the oil comes out of the rear section of the cartrige i have seen this on almost every agp turbo and i wanna know if you guys consider them garrett cartride`s then when you take it to a turbo shop the should be able to fix it but they cant because its not a garrett cartrige like it states on ur website