nitrous and e85..... - Dodge SRT Forum
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post #1 of 38 (permalink) Old 07-31-2009, 07:57 AM Thread Starter
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nitrous and e85.....

is any one running it?? i filled up on it last night and car runs fine beside after awhile i started losing boost it would spike real fast and drop but then this morning it would boost fine????? any idea on that and also i have 22f and 41n jets,
would i need to run a bigger fuel jet to make up for the e85. it ran great on 93 but wanted to run the e85 for more octane and the fact its 2.14 vs 2.73 a gallon and race gas is what 5 or more, so any ideas on what to do. i want to keep it safe or close to safe just to get a couple runs in and get a time im happy with

old car-----98 ACR DOHC 5 speed, close ration tranny, w/ srt exhaust, afx ecu, 52mm tb, 3.0 CAI, solid front mount, flex sides, solid bobble strut, 65% sts by maddog, no p/s or a/c, my best 1/4 15.247 at 90.19

old car---- 98 DOHC 5speed all stock

NEW!!---2005 orange blast SRT-4
Cruise control, MM/tranny inserst, fuel pump rewire, scan gauge, DSP, 3in side exit exhaust, godspeed BFMIC, 75 shot

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post #2 of 38 (permalink) Old 07-31-2009, 08:15 AM
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is any one running it?? i filled up on it last night and car runs fine beside after awhile i started losing boost it would spike real fast and drop but then this morning it would boost fine????? any idea on that and also i have 22f and 41n jets,
would i need to run a bigger fuel jet to make up for the e85. it ran great on 93 but wanted to run the e85 for more octane and the fact its 2.14 vs 2.73 a gallon and race gas is what 5 or more, so any ideas on what to do. i want to keep it safe or close to safe just to get a couple runs in and get a time im happy with
Did you e85 convert the car to run off of e85? My understanding is the cars fuel system will need a minor modifications to run it. I don't think you can just throw e85 in the car and gitty up.

Bump for a correct answer.



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post #3 of 38 (permalink) Old 07-31-2009, 08:39 AM
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Did you e85 convert the car to run off of e85? My understanding is the cars fuel system will need a minor modifications to run it. I don't think you can just throw e85 in the car and gitty up.

Bump for a correct answer.
Nothing needs to be changed as far as the fuel system's materials go if thats what your thinking. Parts wise what you will need to change to make any kind of decent power is the fuel pump (depending on the power level you are wanting you eventually will have to uprade to a twin fuel pump set-up) and also injectors (again...size of the injectors is going to be dependent on the power levels you are wanting).....and of course you will need to be tuned for it obviously.

One problem you MIGHT run into along the line though.....this has been a hit or miss on the cars we switched over to e85......is the fuel level sending units in some of the cars have been going out on a few of them. When replaced with new ones they fail again....when replaced with used one's from older SRT's they work fine which leads me to believe dodge may have changed possibly the materials used when making them somewhere along the line.
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post #4 of 38 (permalink) Old 07-31-2009, 09:05 AM Thread Starter
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so what your saying is i need to not run e85 as im STOCK, like i say it runs fine no knock but i havent sprayed on the 85 yet.....going to the track tonight should i fill up b4 i go out so i have 50/50 mix?...


o and i have read the e85 threads and knew the sending unit risk...as i know how many miles my car gets per tank so sending unit all well i saved 50c per gallon and get better MPG acording to my scangauge

old car-----98 ACR DOHC 5 speed, close ration tranny, w/ srt exhaust, afx ecu, 52mm tb, 3.0 CAI, solid front mount, flex sides, solid bobble strut, 65% sts by maddog, no p/s or a/c, my best 1/4 15.247 at 90.19

old car---- 98 DOHC 5speed all stock

NEW!!---2005 orange blast SRT-4
Cruise control, MM/tranny inserst, fuel pump rewire, scan gauge, DSP, 3in side exit exhaust, godspeed BFMIC, 75 shot

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post #5 of 38 (permalink) Old 07-31-2009, 09:26 AM
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so what your saying is i need to not run e85 as im STOCK, like i say it runs fine no knock but i havent sprayed on the 85 yet.....going to the track tonight should i fill up b4 i go out so i have 50/50 mix?...


o and i have read the e85 threads and knew the sending unit risk...as i know how many miles my car gets per tank so sending unit all well i saved 50c per gallon and get better MPG acording to my scangauge
Stock injectors? If so I wouldnt run e85
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post #6 of 38 (permalink) Old 07-31-2009, 09:47 AM Thread Starter
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so ok since we have it set no e85, what should i do i have lil under 3/4 tank left. and want to race it tonight should try and get it down to half tank and fill it with 93...or race gas w.e needs done i can do as i dont want it to go lean and blow up.....and what injectors would you say to get?....or would a 255 be good?..

old car-----98 ACR DOHC 5 speed, close ration tranny, w/ srt exhaust, afx ecu, 52mm tb, 3.0 CAI, solid front mount, flex sides, solid bobble strut, 65% sts by maddog, no p/s or a/c, my best 1/4 15.247 at 90.19

old car---- 98 DOHC 5speed all stock

NEW!!---2005 orange blast SRT-4
Cruise control, MM/tranny inserst, fuel pump rewire, scan gauge, DSP, 3in side exit exhaust, godspeed BFMIC, 75 shot

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post #7 of 38 (permalink) Old 07-31-2009, 09:53 AM
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I would run your tank down as low as possible and fill up with 93 octane. As stated, without upgraded injectors and fuel pump, I would be worried about running lean with E85.

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post #8 of 38 (permalink) Old 07-31-2009, 10:52 AM Thread Starter
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so if i did want to run e85 and also nitrous would 255 and stg 2 injectors do the trick?.....and by that time i will have a wideband to make sure the A/F ratios are right but would hate to buy stg 2 and them not be enough and have to rebuy

old car-----98 ACR DOHC 5 speed, close ration tranny, w/ srt exhaust, afx ecu, 52mm tb, 3.0 CAI, solid front mount, flex sides, solid bobble strut, 65% sts by maddog, no p/s or a/c, my best 1/4 15.247 at 90.19

old car---- 98 DOHC 5speed all stock

NEW!!---2005 orange blast SRT-4
Cruise control, MM/tranny inserst, fuel pump rewire, scan gauge, DSP, 3in side exit exhaust, godspeed BFMIC, 75 shot

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post #9 of 38 (permalink) Old 07-31-2009, 11:08 AM
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what a/f ratio are you guys tuning to while on the squeeze and e85
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post #10 of 38 (permalink) Old 07-31-2009, 12:03 PM
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Quicky,

Thanks for the E85 update

OP - You don't want a full tank at the track, that's just added weight. Try to figure out how much gas you need to get to the track. I've got it figured out for my 74 mile trek to the track. I get there right above the red line on the fuel gauge, then I put in a gal or so of race gas.

- If You are wanting a lil insurance (as far as octane) for your nitrous, try the N.O.S octane booster. It's about 10 bucks but it really works!!! Add that to a quarter tank and you should be golden. Good luck, have fun and let us know how you do.

word of advice, if you experience wheel hop, get out of the gas!!! don't hurt your car for no reason.



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post #11 of 38 (permalink) Old 07-31-2009, 12:06 PM
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The trick with AFR for E-85 in that stoich(sp) is 9.99 and gas is 14.7 so you need a wideband that reads limbada(sp) so that you can see if you are rich or lean. Also I beleave you would need a tune like with a DSP cause the car would try to keep looking for 14.7 while cruseing. I think I have all that right. If not Im sure Ill get corrected. Also you would have to go about 30% bigger on your fuel jet.

E-85 will keep it alive.
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post #12 of 38 (permalink) Old 07-31-2009, 12:19 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Rhunter View Post
Quicky,

Thanks for the E85 update

OP - You don't want a full tank at the track, that's just added weight. Try to figure out how much gas you need to get to the track. I've got it figured out for my 74 mile trek to the track. I get there right above the red line on the fuel gauge, then I put in a gal or so of race gas.

- If You are wanting a lil insurance (as far as octane) for your nitrous, try the N.O.S octane booster. It's about 10 bucks but it really works!!! Add that to a quarter tank and you should be golden. Good luck, have fun and let us know how you do.

word of advice, if you experience wheel hop, get out of the gas!!! don't hurt your car for no reason.

honestly a full tank doesnt bug me for the added weight as im full interior and so on and at this point i have 1/2 tank of e85 and dnt want my car to run lean and blow up lol and i dont want to just dump gas out... guess i should have read a little more b4 i just filled her up hahah but hey w.e. im happy with it gets GREAT gas millage but its probly cause its lean as crap and thats another reason my egt hits 1400 akit faster now then on 93 but all well time to get injetors and pump........and also im not hip on octane booster i would rather just run race gas.....would you recomend that??? and also THANK YOU GUYS SO MUCH!! for not just saying im dumb and i need a wideband and all that junk you just gave me the answers i was looking for...........

and also what would 30% bigger jet be? i have a 22f right now?
cause i do plan on runin e85 and nitrous just not untill my car ready for it....

and also does any one have any insight on what^^^^^ that guys talking about can they confirm it i would have to get an AEM wideband or the attaxhment for the scangauge and have it not read my a/f right once i switch to e85

old car-----98 ACR DOHC 5 speed, close ration tranny, w/ srt exhaust, afx ecu, 52mm tb, 3.0 CAI, solid front mount, flex sides, solid bobble strut, 65% sts by maddog, no p/s or a/c, my best 1/4 15.247 at 90.19

old car---- 98 DOHC 5speed all stock

NEW!!---2005 orange blast SRT-4
Cruise control, MM/tranny inserst, fuel pump rewire, scan gauge, DSP, 3in side exit exhaust, godspeed BFMIC, 75 shot

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post #13 of 38 (permalink) Old 07-31-2009, 12:33 PM
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The trick with AFR for E-85 in that stoich(sp) is 9.99 and gas is 14.7 so you need a wideband that reads limbada(sp) so that you can see if you are rich or lean. Also I beleave you would need a tune like with a DSP cause the car would try to keep looking for 14.7 while cruseing. I think I have all that right. If not Im sure Ill get corrected. Also you would have to go about 30% bigger on your fuel jet.
A gasoline wideband will work just fine. Just ignore the fact that the ture stoich values for E85 are different, and tune to the same AFR you would for gasoline.

Lambda is a universal value to tune from. Regardless of what fuel you decide to run, the Lambda value will be nearly identical, whether it be Gasoline, Ethanol, Methanol, or even mixes of Ethanol/Gasoline.

AFR values are a mathematical function of Lambda multiplied by the stoich value of the fuel used.

Example: Stoich for gasoline = 14.7:1 AFR, or 1.0 Lambda
Because 14.7 x 1.0 = 14.7

A Lambda value of .80 would be: .80 x 14.7 = 11.76 AFR

So, if you make great safe power at .80 Lambda (or 11.76 AFR) on gasoline, you'll most likely make the same great and safe power using E85 at the same lambda value, thus resulting in the same AFR value on a gasoline wideband.

People always get hung up on the "true stoich" values, and think they need to tune to the lower AFR values of E85, when in reality, if you wanted to tune with those values, you'd need a wideband that was set up specifically for E85. Otherwise, using Lambda values is the easiest way to think about it!

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post #14 of 38 (permalink) Old 07-31-2009, 12:46 PM
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honestly a full tank doesnt bug me for the added weight as im full interior and so on and at this point i have 1/2 tank of e85 and dnt want my car to run lean and blow up lol and i dont want to just dump gas out... guess i should have read a little more b4 i just filled her up hahah but hey w.e. im happy with it gets GREAT gas millage but its probly cause its lean as crap and thats another reason my egt hits 1400 akit faster now then on 93 but all well time to get injetors and pump........and also im not hip on octane booster i would rather just run race gas.....would you recomend that??? and also THANK YOU GUYS SO MUCH!! for not just saying im dumb and i need a wideband and all that junk you just gave me the answers i was looking for...........

and also what would 30% bigger jet be? i have a 22f right now?
cause i do plan on runin e85 and nitrous just not untill my car ready for it....

and also does any one have any insight on what^^^^^ that guys talking about can they confirm it i would have to get an AEM wideband or the attaxhment for the scangauge and have it not read my a/f right once i switch to e85
I'll always recommend race gas, when using nitrous. Believe me man, the N.O.S stuff works.

Before My buddy went insane, he had a very fast S3 (dyno'd 390whp), he could maintain HOM using the N.O.S fuel additive.

Also keep in mind that nitrous can raise EGT's as well.



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post #15 of 38 (permalink) Old 07-31-2009, 01:54 PM Thread Starter
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WOW!! well thanks for the info i feel like i have learned alot on this topic.....

rhunter your name is ralph your addicted to nitrous.....so you havent had any trouble and if you say octane booster works im gonna take your word on it as far as i know you havent had any problems and you seem fairly knowledable, so we will give it a shot.....but time for me to leave work and wire up switch for warmer fix boost leave waste gas fill up tank and n20 tank and blah blah.....sorry just excited hope this thing dont go BOOM!!!! but thank you all so much i will let you know how it goes......

if any one has anything more to add to this feel free as IMO this thread has ALOT of good info for other ppl to read.....even tho we know they never will they will just post the same question lol

old car-----98 ACR DOHC 5 speed, close ration tranny, w/ srt exhaust, afx ecu, 52mm tb, 3.0 CAI, solid front mount, flex sides, solid bobble strut, 65% sts by maddog, no p/s or a/c, my best 1/4 15.247 at 90.19

old car---- 98 DOHC 5speed all stock

NEW!!---2005 orange blast SRT-4
Cruise control, MM/tranny inserst, fuel pump rewire, scan gauge, DSP, 3in side exit exhaust, godspeed BFMIC, 75 shot

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