Hi, just out of curiosity, when is it Ideal to swap to an EMS? HP wise? I see a lot of people don't maintain boost to redline and it seems to have a lot to do with the stock ECU/WGA setup (unless i'm totally off base here?) and turbo size. Why don't more people swap to a stand alone EMS like AEM's (i guess its not avail yet?) or Hydra Nemesis and run like 18psi all the way to redline? I come from mostly MR2 experience (91-95 turbos) and it is very common for those guys to swap at around 270 whp+ to get the most out of their setups. Is it the warranty thing? Just curious and looking for advince on when it would be a good idea to think about doing it.
As soon as you can actually. With nothing more than a stand alone running things stock you can milk a good bit more out of the car. Most people just rather keep going with upgrades till they have no choice but to spend big money and do stand alone. Seems like people get up to around 500whp and then they decide they really do need a stand a lone cuase so much pwr is locked away still.
The problem with the stand alone is the complexity. Even with these PnP units that will be coming out, there's still a LOT of tuning to do. You don't realize but there are tons of variables; crank fueling, after start enrichement, warmup enrichement, accel enrichment (all of these are temp based), VE table, spark table. Then you have VE and spark trims VS coolant and air temp. Then you have boost control and all the other options you want to add in. It's not as simple as a SAFC install. EVERYTHING has to be tuned and if you don't know what you are doing you can easily trash an engine. I trashed mine when first learning how to tune an EFI system...
Unless you have a lot of $ to pay a shop or are a real EFI geek, this will not be fun. I happen to be an EFI geek and enjoy tuning ECU's. For your average car enthusiast it will be more of a headache than its worth....
Ahh so this community just hasn't gotten to that level yet (not trying to be offensive just MR2 guys have been around doing EMS's it seems longer)? My brother tuned his MR2 on a Hydra Nemesis himself and that is more than likely the EMS I would be getting for my SRT-4. I just can't see (after being around turbo MR2's so long) running a spiked boost on a turbo that is inefficient enough to not be able to maintain boost to redline. I believe the ECU has a bit to do with this as well so would like to have a smooth boost curve, maybe loose a little bottom end for overall better performance (and less tirespin).
I realize the cars are only 3 years old but I thought more people with ECU and tuning experience would be with them already... perhaps it is just the volume is so much greater they are there but its not spreading through the masses as much. Anyway, thanks for all the input .
Ahh so this community just hasn't gotten to that level yet (not trying to be offensive just MR2 guys have been around doing EMS's it seems longer)? My brother tuned his MR2 on a Hydra Nemesis himself and that is more than likely the EMS I would be getting for my SRT-4. I just can't see (after being around turbo MR2's so long) running a spiked boost on a turbo that is inefficient enough to not be able to maintain boost to redline. I believe the ECU has a bit to do with this as well so would like to have a smooth boost curve, maybe loose a little bottom end for overall better performance (and less tirespin).
I realize the cars are only 3 years old but I thought more people with ECU and tuning experience would be with them already... perhaps it is just the volume is so much greater they are there but its not spreading through the masses as much. Anyway, thanks for all the input .
Overall compared to other cars out there the SRT-4 has gotten overlooked by a ton of people and tunners. Heck the scion had more things for it with in the first 18 months than we have now.
Seems that this is just not a popular car for companies to really spend time with. Several people went with tec3r cause they knew of people that would be able to install and tune it for them. Even with the hydra being out now so far there really has not after several months been anything said about it or even cars with it on I think.
There are a fair number of people who know how to tune out there. In fact a lot of us are ex DSMers and such who are used to standalones.
From experience I will tell you this the EMS is a slippery slope! A lot of things change when you get it. Yes you have TONS more potential, but the car really is a different car. as stated before you will have to deal with all the maps, almost on a daily basis. Additionally my car is a daily driver, and I'm 99% sure any EMS that comes out has no chance of passing emissions. Finally, because you have all the extra potential you begin to spend all this extra on the car just to utilize that potential. Again that makes my daily driver go down the tubes really. If I want to go fast I will go pick up an old American muscle car and make it go fast, until then I enjoy the ability to make between 400 and 500 whp with the stock PCM and still be an awesome daily driver.
To answer the first poster, I look at a lot of car and owners and wonder why they haven't made the switch. When you spend the money to tear down, build a new motor with strong components, head work, valve train upgrade, cams, bigger turbo, better exhaust manifold, ported intake mani, bigger throttle body, big FMIC, hard pipes, gauges, controllers (band aides) and then a stock PCM. It just doesn't make sense to do all that work to put a band aide tuning system on the car. Now I understand daily driver and emissions, but to dump that much money into something and not go the extra mile.
To be honest I had a built motor/turbo set up for my Civic and I choose the AEM PnP EMS. I hated it, I was one of the first 3 people in AZ to own one, let alone the second one to install and tune it. The good thing is mine lasted for just over 6 months; the first installed on blew up on the dyno the same day of install. That damn thing was tough to tune and since I hadn't had any tuning experience it made it twice as hard, even with base maps that were provided!
I think that most standalone systems can be installed by a professional and tuned. Most companies have some sort of base to get things rolling. I don't have big plans for my car since it's a family daily driver, stage 2 seems fine with me. Later
To answer the first poster, I look at a lot of car and owners and wonder why they haven't made the switch. When you spend the money to tear down, build a new motor with strong components, head work, valve train upgrade, cams, bigger turbo, better exhaust manifold, ported intake mani, bigger throttle body, big FMIC, hard pipes, gauges, controllers (band aides) and then a stock PCM. It just doesn't make sense to do all that work to put a band aide tuning system on the car. Now I understand daily driver and emissions, but to dump that much money into something and not go the extra mile.
To be honest I had a built motor/turbo set up for my Civic and I choose the AEM PnP EMS. I hated it, I was one of the first 3 people in AZ to own one, let alone the second one to install and tune it. The good thing is mine lasted for just over 6 months; the first installed on blew up on the dyno the same day of install. That damn thing was tough to tune and since I hadn't had any tuning experience it made it twice as hard, even with base maps that were provided!
I think that most standalone systems can be installed by a professional and tuned. Most companies have some sort of base to get things rolling. I don't have big plans for my car since it's a family daily driver, stage 2 seems fine with me. Later
I gotta agree with you 100%. All the people that do TONS of work on the motor, the valvetrain, different turbo setups, etc etc. Those are the people who should get the standalone because it truly will unlock alot of horsepower potential and its pretty clear they are willing to deal with the hassles of a not-so-nice daily driver. But for the general everyday streetable srt-4 you can't go wrong with basic easy piggybacks and a stock PCM (or the mopar stages where its all plug-and-play).
I haven't made up my mind 100% about the EMS yet, at least in the near future (it will definitely get one if I keep the car a long time), and wanted input for that reason. I appreciate those who posted here! I wonder about the OBDII compatibility of stand alone EMS's but I haven't looked very closely at them yet so my reasoning thus far has been based on performance only.
Thanks for all the comments/suggestions Keep em coming.
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