whats the ideal voltage you want for most timing

[19 psi]

please read before you write this post off

I want to know how low of MAP volts/boost, one would want there PCM to see for timing purposes......
Example: right now with SAFC on S2 fuel, I can only go as low as -8 to -9 corr. on the SAFC and the car leans out to around 12.0 A/F @ leanest.....
question: If I were to add return line I could then turn up the fuel effectively haveing to turn the SAFC to more negitive corr. (say around -18 to -19) to get the car to lean out to the same 12.0 A/F, but now the PCM is seeing lower volts/boost from the MAP thus creating less chance of timing pulled?

[NIVO88T]

have you logged your timing curves in different gears on the road?

If not, most of this thread is garbage.... optimum is stock timing curve with stock voltage.

The variables are to big to even consider letting one person tell you whats best for your car if you dont know what it's doing first. try to invest in a scanner or software. log some runs and view them.

watch the intake temps and the timing along with rpm and engine load.

don't just let someone else try to blow your shitz up.

[Exhaust Depot]

Put your car on a dynopac and lock your car at each 500 RPM and add timing till you reach peak tq. Once you hit your max TQ , you have also reached your ideal timing.

[Vector]

Quote: Originally Posted by NIVO88T

have you logged your timing curves in different gears on the road?

If not, most of this thread is garbage.... optimum is stock timing curve with stock voltage.

The variables are to big to even consider letting one person tell you whats best for your car if you dont know what it's doing first. try to invest in a scanner or software. log some runs and view them.

watch the intake temps and the timing along with rpm and engine load.

don't just let someone else try to blow your shitz up.

follow the above.

if you wanted to know we used a return line on das car this let us pull more fuel adding more timing.

then we hit it with water meth pulling more fuel yet adding more timing.

36-42 degress is what i have seen if the octane is there. if not it WILL PULL TIMING and go slower.

hope that helps

[19 psi]

Quote: Originally Posted by Vector

if not it WILL PULL TIMING and go slower.

hope that helps

See this is exactly what im talking about....you can literally see the car pull timing on my DYNO sheet and the HP going into the ground But this was 25 psi on stock turbo! But at this psi SAFC was barley pulling volts/fuel so as to keep it from going to lean....
I know that If I had a return line and more fuel pressure that I could have turned that up and then pulled volts off the MAP to keep it from pulling timing on me. It was a probly a good 50 HP of pulled timing. When I turned back to 20 psi timing does not get pulled but you can see the HP and torque are not as good.

And NIVO I've never logged timing but then why do i need to if I know for shure that it is getting pulled....
I'll post the DYNO sheet if anyone wants me to

[dsmlights]

post dyno sheet. but you are got understand also , where u on pump gas???
Also u got to understand one thing the more boost u run the more timing the car will pull no matter what that is what the pcm is made to do. That is why u need stand alone so u can control timing. at 26 psi u where prob knocking lightly that is why pulling timing. But check datalogger see what timing is being pulled to.... hope this helps

[19 psi]

This at 25 psi:
The more spiky timing pulled graph was 4th gear pull.
The higher DYNO was 3rd gear pull



Here is current DYNO back down at 20 PSI.

[Vector]

? why are you trying to run 25 psi. out of all the cars i have done 22/23 has netted the best performance.

in order to do this you need atlest a return line or water methonal or stage 2 some way of adding fuel.

i think what your getting is

not enough octane
not enough fuel
not enough "clamp"
even more heat then we already see @ 22/23 psi

also no need to dyno the car below 3000 rpms really it just screws with the numbers all the surging

you just happen to have everything slightly off and its playing hell on you

[19 psi]

I have S2 and W/I spraying denatured/distilled.

deffinetly not fuel cut....
deffenetly not heat soak, it was first run of the night....
maybe not enough octane might cause detonation, but never hear ping....
but i DO think if I had had more clamp, it would'nt have pulled like that. also before it started to get pulled it looks like it was starting out to be a killer run, if you look at the line it was starting out real good.... way above the 3rd gear run, but then it started to pull and did'nt even hit 250 .

[Vector]

Quote: Originally Posted by 19 psi

I have S2 and W/I spraying denatured/distilled.

deffinetly not fuel cut....
deffenetly not heat soak, it was first run of the night....
maybe not enough octane might cause detonation, but never hear ping....
but i DO think if I had had more clamp, it would'nt have pulled like that. also before it started to get pulled it looks like it was starting out to be a killer run, if you look at the line it was starting out real good.... way above the 3rd gear run, but then it started to pull and did'nt even hit 250 .

i dont understand how your hardly pulling anything and have stage 2 and water meth you should be pulling a fair amount.

you should be pulling atleast 15%
how much are you pulling?
whats your output voltage at?

[TJ1376]

Something is not right here.

You have s2 injectors, s2 pcm, AND water/meth injection... With a a/f ratio that high? And it doesn't look like you are pulling ANYTHING from the way the dyno graph looks like the car is pulling timing.

No offense 19, but do you know what your dyno chart looks like? A stage 2 dyno with a mis tuned wastegate and NO clamping at all. We just dynoed an otherwise stock s2 down here... His tq curve looked JUST like your 20 psi dyno curve.

And your 20+ dyno pull looks just like my dyno on nothing but an open dump and a s2 wga pushing 20+ psi (I reset the computer for the last dyno run just for sh*ts and giggles). Although you did put a few more hp and tq out than I did... It looked JUST LIKE that curve... Lots of parts with dips and rises all throughout the band.

Go back over your entire setup... Something is NOT right.

TJ

[19 psi]

No where near 15% correction, right now my SAFC is at -8 to -9, I just did some pulls and got voltage of starting at sround 3.5 and then drop to 3.0 around redline. My A/F's now are low/mid 11's same as white dyno sheet.
SAFC was set to same or real similar on yellow dyno sheet....

MODS: S2, SAFC, cooling mist deluxe spraying denatured/distilled, BFMIC, NGK's gapped around .034, AGP WGA almost truned all the way up i get 22-23 psi in higher gear, NEEDWINGS open dump

[blackbird_R/T]

Just a quick question since you're going off dyno charts to guess what timing is doing. Is the place you took your car to one of the main dyno shops in the Las Vegas area? The reason I ask is because it looks like they're screwing with the numbers to show changes in power. I've developed a habit of looking at the test conditions on a dyno sheet. Look at your SAE correction factor on the first dyno sheet that you posted. Within a matter of eight minutes they're telling you that it went from an SAE 1.06 to a 1.17 correction factor becuase humidity changed and the barometric pressure dropped that much? No way.

Either they've got faulty equipment or they're intentionally altering numbers to show improvement/changes. I pulled up the weather history for Vegas and the 24-hour barometric pressure ranged from about 29.9 to 30.0 that whole day. I think this might be the same place that Josh @ Fully Built used when he was originally advertising his eBay "S3" kit and produced whacky dyno charts with similar differences to show his power gains.

If you're relying on a dyno to see what's up with your car you might look elsewhere. Whether it's intentionally or not, you're not going to see accurate results.

[Vector]

holy hell nice eye black. i have never seen a dyno do that on its own. 1.06 vs 1.17 is huge

thats fuked up

[19 psi]

Quote: Originally Posted by Vector

1.06 vs 1.17 is huge

thats fuked up

what does that mean??