that slight hesitation..ive had ever since i started slapping mods on.
nothing has effectively been changed that would alter your idle aside from the s1 pcm which might have some differences in the timing/IPW charts..
if all youre seeing is 1-2kr, then be happy and drive it like how its suppose to be. these mopar pcm's are incredibly smart.
I definitely am paranoid; I will admit to that.
1-2 KR is normal now, but when I push the clutch in to change gears, it'll spike to 5-5.5 KR. Most everyone will say, anything over 3 KR means something is wrong. I'm guessing that most people that say that are much more modified than I am, but there doesn't seem to be a really clear answer on anything.
All I know is...before my mods, my car didn't tap during warmup (lifter tick, I'm guessing)...and my idle didn't randomly sound like it was misfiring. I can only really make note of any differences I see...and attempt to check them out to make sure my car is OK.
I'm just trying to learn more and be careful, that's all. You and many others take your knowledge and experience for granted. I have a ton of knowledge, but it's the experience + knowledge that one really needs to know what they're talking about. I'm slowly gaining that experience with this car, and with the help of people, but I'm not at a point where I'm really comfortable feeling like I know how well my car is running, or not. =/
1-2 KR is normal now, but when I push the clutch in to change gears, it'll spike to 5-5.5 KR. Most everyone will say, anything over 3 KR means something is wrong. I'm guessing that most people that say that are much more modified than I am, but there doesn't seem to be a really clear answer on anything.
All I know is...before my mods, my car didn't tap during warmup (lifter tick, I'm guessing)...and my idle didn't randomly sound like it was misfiring. I can only really make note of any differences I see...and attempt to check them out to make sure my car is OK.
I'm just trying to learn more and be careful, that's all. You and many others take your knowledge and experience for granted. I have a ton of knowledge, but it's the experience + knowledge that one really needs to know what they're talking about. I'm slowly gaining that experience with this car, and with the help of people, but I'm not at a point where I'm really comfortable feeling like I know how well my car is running, or not. =/
i think the random misfire is just a biproduct of when you begin to alter fuel, boost, flow, temp rates and all that jazz.
the tick...most likely from the oil mod.
the oil modifier alters the oil pressure that is being sent to your lashers. less oil coating your valvetrain, the more audible things will become.
as for the spike in kr when you change gears... that is very much most likely from when letting off the gas. because what is happening is the injectors shut off (the minute you are out of the gas pedal), so it is like an 'extreme' lean condition for that split second until you get back into the gas pedal and go again..thats all.
you would lose your hair if you had to live w/ my car every day...
as for your miss at idle that is normal. but the knock issue on a stock car concerns me. when my car was stock i would never get knock. but you says its not really a issue untill you shift. that could be caused by sold motor mounts or stock mounts when you shift there could be some slack causing the knock sensor to read a change in hamonics. if that is the case then i wouldnt worry. as long as the knock isnt excessive under load and full boost. as for 91 octane gas i couldnt go over 17psi without crazy knock when i first started modding. i would get 8deg or more of kr before meth. after i saw that i bought my meth kit the next day. i only run 100% meth. with that it lets me run 23-24psi daily and still keep egts and knock in check. as for reliability i have had my meth kit for almost 2years now and have ran over 21psi the hole time. also have done alot of testing with nitrous and meth. see sig for more timing info.
Yeah, I have an Aeroforce Scangauge as well. That's when I noticed I was getting up to 7 KR on a stock engine. I about had a heart attack.
If I kinda find a 76 station, I will try...but I do not know of any near my house.
As for the meth kit, if I did install one, I wouldn't use it to turn up the boost...I'd keep the same levels and run it safer. That way, if something did happen during WOT, it would simply pull timing and knock more.
As for catch can, I'll look into getting one. I get a lot of mixed reviews/feelings on running them.
Exactly how I run my kit.
I love my AGP catch can... damn thing picks up all sorts of crap... I empty it every month and it's almost full.
forget the knock do a datalog of your timing advance over RPM and post it up here...
See if that knock is causing the timing to get yanked. Here's my timing pre-clamping the car and then after clamping it with boost level specified. KR was showing 0.0 on both runs except I think I got a little in 3rd gear on the clamped run as you can see the timing starts to hold flat instead of building. Use that as a baseline and see where you're at.
This is with intake, exhaust, BFMIC, WGA, Hard Pipes, BOV, and no fuel mods on a 2004 (Stage 0)...but currently I hold a big fat 0.0 KR. This graph I made while tuning the car.
__________________
2004 Dodge SRT-4 Stock Turbo, Stock Fuel System, Street Tires
60': 2.11
1/4mi: 13.29 @ 110.51mph
Dyno with times above: 275.4whp / 319.0wtq
Last edited by N0sferatU : 06-06-2008 at 03:53 PM.
as for the spike in kr when you change gears... that is very much most likely from when letting off the gas. because what is happening is the injectors shut off (the minute you are out of the gas pedal), so it is like an 'extreme' lean condition for that split second until you get back into the gas pedal and go again..thats all.
actually its a extreme rich condition with a staged computer that is what the peak hold is. it add fuel between shifts for a primitive anti lag. thats why you see your wideband go into the 13's sometimes the 12's afr when you let off inbetween shifts. the injectors dont shut off for a second later. that is why when you down shift the car will pop a couple of times before it goes into full decel and you wideband goes full lean.
actually its a extreme rich condition with a staged computer that is what the peak hold is. it add fuel between shifts for a primitive anti lag. thats why you see your wideband go into the 13's sometimes the 12's afr when you let off inbetween shifts. the injectors dont shut off for a second later. that is why when you down shift the car will pop a couple of times before it goes into full decel and you wideband goes full lean.
doesnt mean its still injecting fuel when you let off the gas.
s0 or s1, doesnt matter imo. that 'anti-lag' bs that mopar built in is only effective under WOT shift circumstances, so im not sure how you can apply that to this scenerio.
my wideband will read 12-13 for a split second when i get off the gas to shift...but thats not because its for 'anti lag' as youd say (im s0 by the way), its just excess left over fuel being burnt up. that is for a split second tho.
eitherway, you, and myself are just taking jabs at what it can be. noone knows until they are at his car tinkering w/ it.
all the shit hes talking about seems 100% completely normal for a 91oct car, and the noises he hears are just byproducts of modding.
I don't agree that the "miss at idle" is normal - my car doesn't do that.
My car also has the DCR Oil Modifier and it doesn't "tick"
It's probably a spun rod bearing Just kidding!
More likely the cam cap TSB.
You said your car is stock.
I know mine when stock knocked like a mofo when cold on initial startup.
And it made good HP and TQ so I don't think the knock sensor was picking up any KR
Then I did the cam cap TSB and it's been perfect ever since.
If I was sure things like plugs, plug wires, air filter, etc were perfect, then I'd perform a boost leak test and also check if the TPS wiring was perfect.
Last edited by Simon.Starkie : 06-06-2008 at 04:35 PM.
i think the random misfire is just a biproduct of when you begin to alter fuel, boost, flow, temp rates and all that jazz.
the tick...most likely from the oil mod.
the oil modifier alters the oil pressure that is being sent to your lashers. less oil coating your valvetrain, the more audible things will become.
as for the spike in kr when you change gears... that is very much most likely from when letting off the gas. because what is happening is the injectors shut off (the minute you are out of the gas pedal), so it is like an 'extreme' lean condition for that split second until you get back into the gas pedal and go again..thats all.
you would lose your hair if you had to live w/ my car every
day...
Haha...I bet I would go crazy with your car, dude.
I haven't read in any other threads where people talk about the DCR Oil Mod. causing ticking when cold. That's why I'm concerned there.
Ok...so if I'm getting a spike in KR during shifts because of a lean point, it's still knock, right? And knock is still bad and will pull timing, as far as I've read...or, if bad enough, potentially damage my engine.
Quote: Originally Posted by eviilboy
Exactly how I run my kit.
I love my AGP catch can... damn thing picks up all sorts of crap... I empty it every month and it's almost full.
Yeah...I think I will pick up a catch can just to be on the safe side.
Quote: Originally Posted by Simon.Starkie
I don't agree that the "miss at idle" is normal - my car doesn't do that.
My car also has the DCR Oil Modifier and it doesn't "tick"
It's probably a spun rod bearing Just kidding!
More likely the cam cap TSB.
You said your car is stock.
I know mine when stock knocked like a mofo when cold on initial startup.
And it made good HP and TQ so I don't think the knock sensor was picking up any KR
Then I did the cam cap TSB and it's been perfect ever since.
If I was sure things like plugs, plug wires, air filter, etc were perfect, then I'd perform a boost leak test and also check if the TPS wiring was perfect.
Haha...and this is why I never know what to think. It's impossible to ever get a solid, single answer, it seems. A bunch of people will say that it's all good, and normal....and then another crowd will disagree and say something is wrong. Who do you believe, haha?
Blah.
Quote: Originally Posted by N0sferatU
forget the knock do a datalog of your timing advance over RPM and post it up here...
See if that knock is causing the timing to get yanked. Here's my timing pre-clamping the car and then after clamping it with boost level specified. KR was showing 0.0 on both runs except I think I got a little in 3rd gear on the clamped run as you can see the timing starts to hold flat instead of building. Use that as a baseline and see where you're at.
This is with intake, exhaust, BFMIC, WGA, Hard Pipes, BOV, and no fuel mods on a 2004 (Stage 0)...but currently I hold a big fat 0.0 KR. This graph I made while tuning the car.
Hrm...how do I log with my scangauge? I know it can record numbers and play them back, but I wasn't aware I could actually log.
Hrm...how do I log with my scangauge? I know it can record numbers and play them back, but I wasn't aware I could actually log.
I sat there with my laptop and an excel spreadsheet and wrote down each scan and cycled to the next scan and that's how I got what you see in the excel document...anyways use mine as a template if you want (the left sided column is no map clamp and the middle column is clamp w/o knock and the right is the clamp with mild knock)
Quote: Originally Posted by jc.turbo
N0sferatU, you don't use donkey piss (91octane) though right?
AutoForums.com is the premier network of enthusiast-owned
enthusiast-operated automotive communities.
We operate more than 100 automotive forums where our users consult peers for shopping information and advice, and share
experiences and opinions as a community.
Just kidding! 
Linear Mode
