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Old 05-16-2004, 08:30 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Apex~i SAFC (II) Discussion/Help Thread

I just figured since there are plenty of Apex~i SAFC owners out there and many are new to it, this thread might be useful for the SAFC Veteran users to help others.

help with:


  • Install
  • set up
  • SAFC to Vehicle connection
  • Tuning
  • and everything else having to do with the Apex~i SAFC(II)
__________________________________________________ ____

PAP's SAFC Install How-To

Heres how to wire it up:

The C1 (black connector) module is the 4th connector from top going to PCM (1st is blank).

The C2 (orange connector) module is the 3rd connector going to PCM.


Please try to solder all connections.

Your going to need a tach driver to get a good rpm signal. wiring of the tach adapter is below with pics by our man Exhaust Depot. the specific tach driver is the MSD 8913.


POWER -
Red wire (afc)--- pin 11 on module C1 (dark blue/red wire).


GROUND -
Brown wire & Black wire (afc)--- pin 18 on module C1 (black/Tan wire) the brown wire should be T'd closer to the PCM.


RPM
-
Green wire (afc)--- tach driver MSD Part #8913 (should be the gray wire on Tach Driver).


THROTTLE POSITION SIGNAL -
Gray wire (afc)--- pin 21 on module C2 (orange/dark blue wire) if you want to reference to TPS.


Best on a turbocharged vehicle if wired/Teed into the (dark green/red) wire of the MAP sensor on the srt4, this . Closer to the MAP Sensor side of the cut wire. Look at diagram below. You want to "tee" in just behind the white Map signal wire.


MAP SIGNAL -
yellow wire output signal (afc)--- pin 23 on module c2 leading to PCM (dark green/red wire). Solder in for best connection.


white wire input signal (afc)--- pin 23 on module c2 coming from motor (dark green/red wire). Solder in for best connection.

NOTE: Dark Green/red wire must be cut so you have 2 wires, one that goes to the PCM and the other that goes to the MAP sensor.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
I also recomend using the MAP signal as a reference in lieu of the throttle position sensor. So, the boost tells the AFC when to go into the high and low setting. Just be sure to refrence the signal before you modify it.

~PAP

__________________________________________________ ______________

Diagram for MAP wire connections from SAFC


__________________________________________________ ______________


Tach adapter wiring - by E.D.
MSD 8913 Tach Adapter/Driver

Make sure you install the tach adapter in the area shown in the pic and not at the PCM connector as you may experience signal loss.

Cut greenwire with orange stripe on the coil. This is the VCC for the coil. Attach the red with green stripe TOWARDS the COIL. Attach the solid red wire towards the POWER DISTRIBUTION.

The black is ground, I like to attach it to the battery cable. The grey is your tach signal. The grey wire will connect to the AFC/SAFCII green wire.

You can tie wrap the unit to the hoses and vacuum lines on the side of the battery tray.

If you dont have a soldering iron, then you should not be purchasing this item.

~Exhaust Depot


tach-adapter-part-8912-picture-089.jpg tach-adapter-part-8912-picture-090.jpg

__________________________________________________ ______________

Settings once it's all installed in your Dodge SRT

Sensor Type

  • Pressure (selct pressure for MAP sensors)
  • Sensor Number: in 10 / out 10
Car Select
  • 4CyL
  • Arrow Points North East (When the throttle is completely closed, the throttle sensor voltage is 0 V to 1 V.

    When the throttle is completely opened, the throttle sensor voltage is 3 V to 5 V.)
TH Point
  • Dependant on wether you use TPS or MAP, 3 bar Sensor or 2.25 Sensor.
  • The lo/hi throttle settings are for when the lo/hi throttle maps come into play..

    IE...lo 10% means that anything under 10% throttle [or map reference in this case], the safc uses the LO map to alter fuel..

    HI 40% means that anything OVER 40%, the safc uses the HI map to alter fuel

    Anything inbetween the two maps [11%-39%] and the safc interpolates the two maps to figure out the correction needed...

    No fuel will be pulled at all until you actually go through on the lo/hi throttle maps after you have set your NE points, and adjust the percentages at the different rpm settings..... toyoguru

NE Point
  • Choose your rpm points you will work with, if you want to scale the injectors down at idle, add 800rpm to point 1 on LO. Use these wisely as you have 12 points in HI and LO.
__________________________________________________ ______________

1. Hi-Thrtl ................Air correction factor setting (throttle opening, large)
2. Lo-Thrtl .............. Air correction factor setting (throttle opening, small)
3. TH-Point............. Throttle opening setting
4. Ne-Point............. Air correction engine RPM setting
5. Dec.-Air.............. Deceleration Air upper limit setting
6. Knk Set................Knocking signal correction
7. Data File ............ Data file control


1. Sensor Type....... Sensor type and sensor number setting
2. Car Select ...........Number-of-cylinders and throttle type setting
3. Sensor chk ..........Sensor check
4. Disp Scale.......... Display scale setting
5. Warning Set .......Warning output setting
6. Pass Lock............Password setting/change
7. VFD Bright ......... VFD brightness adjustment
8. Program Ver....... Program version check
9. Initialize.............. All data initialization



Sour Kraut Explains

1.SensorType should be set to pressure with the Sens.No's being 10IN 10OUT

2.Car Select should be set to 4 under cyl and the arrow pointing up in the direction of the knob(this is telling the safc that the voltage increases as the throttle is opened)

3.Sensor check does exactly what it says, It lets you see the voltage on the map and tps wires.

4.Display Scale sets the parameters for the playback screen(THIS IS UNNEEDED FOR IT TO RUN SO DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT RIGHT NOW, LATER READ UP AND FIGURE IT OUT!).

5.warning set lets you set warnings,DUH. Not needed to run.

6.Pass lock lets you lock the settings for your hi and low settings, your ne points, and the corrections for each ne point. Once it's locked, you can't change them until you unlock it again.

7.You should be able to figure this out.

8.Program Version, something like windows xp service pack2. It just tells you the software version in the controller.

9.Initialize resets all the settings back to default! DO NOT hit yes here, you will lose all your settings.


Setting menu explained

1.Hi-Thrtl This is were you remove fuel after setting your ne points for any percentage above what is set as high in TH-point settings. A negative number is removing fuel, a positive number is a problem.

2.Lo-Thrtl This is the same as high throttle except it effects any percentage below your low throttle setting in the Th-point settings.

** Any point between your high and low settings will be interpolated to supply the difference between the 2 for a given rpm.

3.Th-point Sets your high and low throttle percentages. Anything above the high percentage is effected by the hi thrtl map while anything below the lo percentage is effected by the lo thrtl map.

4.Ne-Point This is where you set your rpm points that you wish to alter your fuel.

5.Dec.-air is used for cars that use a maf, so you don't use it.

6.Knk set is how you set the sensitivity of the unit for your knock sensor, which is too sensitive to work anyway so you don't need to hook it up.

7.Data File is where you can change between the 2 diffrent maps that you can set up.

Attached Images
File Type: gif SAFCinstall.gif (9.7 KB, 16914 views)
File Type: gif SAFCinstallnew.gif (22.4 KB, 5119 views)
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Old 05-16-2004, 09:10 AM   #2 (permalink)
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thanks Nivo (NeonDan) will come in handy here soon....
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Old 05-16-2004, 01:19 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I would also recomend using the MAP signal as a reference in lieu of the throttle position sensor. So, the boost tells the AFC when to go into the high and low setting. Just be sure to refrence the signal before you modify it.

ques...in normal words what does this mean and how would you go about hooking up the SAFC that way?? thanks for the help!!
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Old 05-16-2004, 06:50 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Thanx Nivo! Now I don't have to keep posting the hook-up.

Pap
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Old 05-17-2004, 05:19 PM   #5 (permalink)
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QUOTE: would also recomend using the MAP signal as a reference in lieu of the throttle position sensor. So, the boost tells the AFC when to go into the high and low setting. Just be sure to refrence the signal before you modify it. QUOTE:

PAP: I have a ques...in normal words what does this mean and how would you go about hooking up the SAFC that way?? thanks for the help!!
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Old 05-17-2004, 06:16 PM   #6 (permalink)
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No problem. What I mean is: T into the MAP sensor wire with the TPS signal wire (gray wire) from the AFC before you splice it with the MAP sensor wires (yellow/white and white). In other words the T'd connection will be closer to the MAP sensor and the Splice will be closer to the ECU. This will let the AFC see the signal before its altered. Hope that clears it up.

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Old 05-17-2004, 07:09 PM   #7 (permalink)
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thanks Pap...I'm going to look and see how I've got my SAFC hooked up...I can't remember and want to be sure I hook it like you said...

One more question....On the SAFC sensor check I was reading about 4.5V @wot @15psi of boost...what # of Volts should I have my sensors set at on the SAFC?? Intially when I hooked it up I set them at 6V IN/6V OUT...when I lowered the IN/OUT voltage I noticed better performance...what would be the best setting right now for stage 1 injectors and is this the SAFC map clamping feature??
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Old 05-17-2004, 09:02 PM   #8 (permalink)
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If you are talking about the Sensor type, it should be set to PRESSURE and have a setting of 10 in & 10 out.

Essentially, the map clamping feature on the afc is to pull fuel out. That basically restricts the ecu from seeing x amount of voltage. Just be sure you have enough fuel. Make sure your 02's are good to go.

I would also set the high throttle position to 40% when using the MAP as a reference. Example 40%=2volts=7.4 psi.....50%=2.5volts=9.25psi......20%=1volt=3.7psi...etc. So at 40% or 7.4psi the high throttle settings start to take effect.

Pap

Last edited by pap : 05-17-2004 at 09:06 PM.
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Old 05-17-2004, 09:14 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote: Originally Posted by Xyber
thanks Nivo (NeonDan) will come in handy here soon....

Yeah, your welcome...I knew that Pap was one of the first to try the SAFC on the SRT and had good results with a flat fuel curve. It's getting more and more common now to install one on the SRT-4 and people have gotten good results. It's not a replacement for the Power Paq or the E-manage but it works decent for those on a budget.

And now that Tuner Transformation came out and BenK used the SAFC with bigger injectors. More people are following suit...

Thankz Pap for the intructions!

Nivo
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Old 05-18-2004, 02:57 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Pap...thanks!! I have the IN/OUT set wrong...how would that affect driveability if I had it set to 5IN/OUT?? right now I'm adding a lot of fuel above 4400 rpms w/stage 1 because I was leaning out w/the T3/T4...so 10 IN/10 OUT is ok?

would you still recommend those percentages if running higher boost on a T3/T4 turbo??

I don't have the grey wire hooked up (from the SAFC) right now...I would just splice it into the map sensor wire (yellow/white and white)...what wires would I have to switch?

Pap...thanks again!

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Old 05-18-2004, 03:14 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Good write up. Going to install this for a customer this weekend.
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Old 05-18-2004, 06:39 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote: Originally Posted by RoostBoost
Pap...thanks!! I have the IN/OUT set wrong...how would that affect driveability if I had it set to 5IN/OUT?? right now I'm adding a lot of fuel above 4400 rpms w/stage 1 because I was leaning out w/the T3/T4...so 10 IN/10 OUT is ok?

would you still recommend those percentages if running higher boost on a T3/T4 turbo??

I don't have the grey wire hooked up (from the SAFC) right now...I would just splice it into the map sensor wire (yellow/white and white)...what wires would I have to switch?

Pap...thanks again!

10in/10out it is. Any other way, the car may seem to bog at certain rpms.

How much boost are you running? What rpm does the turbo fully spool?

This diagrqam should help out.
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Old 05-18-2004, 08:43 PM   #13 (permalink)
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thanks Pap!...you were right about the bogging, as I did notice that as I was acclerating.

I was hitting about 20psi for awhile (full spool on the T3/T4 turbo is about 4k rpms) until I installed a brand new set of NGK's (gapped at .030) and then after about 30 min of tuning my EBC I took them out and saw white on the tips...I am now only running about 12-14psi till I can get back on the dyno and/or get bigger injectora and fuel pump.

the diagram helps out tremendously!! Thanks again!!
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Old 05-18-2004, 08:55 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Great thread! Thanks pap!!!
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Old 05-25-2004, 01:26 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Default Need Help W/SAFC II, also boost problems

I bought an SAFC II from turboevolution last week, and took it to the performance shop here to have them install. They said it would not work right, because it is designed to work with a 0-5 volt system (japanese), and the dodge is 3-7 volts. I see that people here are running them, and I'm just hoping someone could help me out.
Also, I got a profec B to help control my boost, it had been spiking 20 then bleeding to 13 with RAGE wastegate, then we put the stock wastegate back on and we kept experiencing the same problems. We unhooked the wastegate entirely, and it was boosting out of control, so I have no idea what the problem is. It can make the boost, just can't hold it. thanks so much for any help!
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