USA Preview on Next Minivan

[hemidakota]

Chrysler turns to flat-folding seats
By David Kiley, USA TODAY
DETROIT — Chrysler Group secretly is planning to switch its Dodge and Chrysler brand minivans to flat-folding third-row seats early next year, eliminating heavy, removable rear seats that are a chief reason people choose other vans, industry sources say.
2003 Dodge Caravan.
Wieck

It's no minor change for Chrysler, representing significant investment on a new design that lets the third-row seat fold to form a flat, level cargo floor.

And it's no small symbol of how competitive the minivan market has become, even though sales of minivans are stalled at about 1 million a year. (Chart: Minivan market share and quality ranking )

"The minivan category has become one of the most competitive categories in our business," says Jill Green, owner of Green Chrysler in East Moline, Ill. She calls Chrysler's seat fix "a welcome change."

Chrysler's mum because it doesn't want buyers to wait for the new design. The automaker will begin building the new vans early next year.

Chrysler's previous decision to stick with bulky seats that have to be removed, instead of incorporating a fold-flat third seat, has been viewed by auto analysts and its own dealers as one of the biggest errors in design judgment in the last decade. Not yet 3 years old, Chrysler's current-generation vans are the most deeply discounted in the market, fueling an expected $1.2 billion second-quarter loss.

Minivan sales in general have been hurt as buyers shifted to sport-utility vehicles. Though minivans tend to be roomier and handier, they don't have the sporty image that SUVs do, nor can they tow as much or tackle bad roads as successfully.

An out-of-date minivan is fighting two enemies — SUVs generally, and other vans specifically.

"I wish Chrysler had done this from the beginning. ... We traded ours for a Honda Odyssey because of the third-row seat," says Brenda Appleton, a mother of four from Ypsilanti, Mich.

Dan Gorrell of Strategic Vision, who surveys owners' likes and dislikes, says lack of a folding third row is one of the top complaints from owners of Chrysler minivans, and one of the top reasons people who consider them don't buy.

"Chrysler was viewed as the expert on minivans, but they let Honda take that away when they didn't do the third-row seat right," says Gorrell. Honda launched the current-design Odyssey late in 1998 as a '99 model, putting a special hurt on Chrysler. Honda owners who needed a van prior to the '99 Odyssey most often bought a Chrysler or Dodge.

Odyssey's marquee feature was the so-called Magic Seat — the flat-folding third row that disappears into a deep well in the floor.

In the midst of heavy discounting, Honda offers no incentives on Odysseys. By contrast, Chrysler Group is giving $3,500 rebates or 0%, five-year financing on most Grand Caravan models.

The seat change only gets Chrysler caught up just as rivals break new ground. Nissan's '04 Quest, for instance, has adventuresome styling, including skylights the length of the roof. Seat shapes and upholstery are meant to resemble furniture more than auto seats.

Toyota, to offer both the fold-flat third seat and all-wheel drive, went to the expense of adapting the underpinnings and powertrain of its Lexus RX 330 luxury sport-utility vehicle to the redesigned, 2004 Sienna van. The front-drive Sienna uses a different platform.

Honda, Toyota and Nissan minivans have sophisticated, 230-plus horsepower V-6 engines and five-speed automatic transmissions — a powertrain combination rare even in the sportiest sedans and coupes just a few years ago, and unmatched by the Chryslers.

General Motors will try something different next year — dropping the minivan name. GM's next-generation vans are made to resemble midsize SUVs, though the vans still have double sliding doors and a fold-flat third-row seat for convenience. The vehicles will be referred to as "sport vans."

Ford Motor is launching two minivans this fall with its first fold-flat third seats, plus more modern engines, tauter handling and premium interiors.

The cleverness of a minivan remains a key attribute. Chrysler is looking at two rows of fold-flat seats for its overhauled minivans, due as early as 2007, offering the hauling capacity of a delivery van on demand.

[Vooduguru]

I hated the Oddity seats. They were uncomfortable, and you have any idea how heavy that "Magic" seat was to move up and down? You ever seen the inside of a minivan? There's shit all over the place. I do like the new Dodge lineup for seats, I just hope the ride is as quiet as it is now. The Honda Oddity is hella noisy due to that boom box in back. Gimmick I thought

[hemidakota]

It was surprise to me after I recommended the CRV to a friend. She complained to me that after riding for a week there is too much road noise.

Though, I did recommend the Liberty but not the Ram since she had 97 Ram head problems. Bad for Chrysler since the dependability was not there before the pre-merger.

However, the bar of the mini-van world will change soon. The biggest change is going to be powertrain that Honda doesn't have anything in its inventory to compete with.

[sailbrd]

Seats? What seats? How can you haul engines and trannies and other junk with seats. Besides if your minivan only has 2 seats then its a sports car.

[hemidakota]

If you are referring to the 05 model, both the middle and the rea seats fold flat into the floor for hauling purposes.

[sailbrd]

I want to do my test. Put a Buick 455 on top of the fold down seats and see how they hold up. Yes I know I am guilty of van abuse. Also need a place to put the tie down straps to (500 pounds needs some heavy tie downs.)

[hemidakota]

Haahahahaaaaaa. I did the same thing with the Astro van with a tranny and engine block. Though, you had to remove the seats.

[sailbrd]

I have not had the rear seats in mine for 6 months. I have two engine/trans projects going on and I know I could kill a fold down seat. Guess I will have to keep my 2000 Caravan for a long time.