still getting knock - SRT Forums

omegashen · 04-13-2009, 07:46 PM

I dont know what to do im still getting at least 6* total knock retard in my 3rd gear pulls from 4k-6k it cant be fuel im running 10.5 wot till redline i even pulled a couple of degrees of timing as well any suggestions or should i just start pulling the boost down? right now im spiking 18 hold 15 and thats a 7% increase across the board over stock.

sfla_srt4 · 04-13-2009, 07:49 PM

What kind of gas are you using?? Are you logging ST and LT knock??

omegashen · 04-13-2009, 07:59 PM

76 station 91, supposedly its the best 91 octane i heard you can get here in San Diego it has that 10% ethanol crap or something like that but yup im logging everything that i was supposed to from the what to log thread,including st ,lt and tot knock retard, im kinda at a loss here the type of gas or too much boost is all i can think of i changed my plugs today becasue i thought that was it. I changed them to the ngk 4306's gapped to 0.35.

Chief · 04-13-2009, 08:02 PM

damn 91, i feel bad for you guys. Got 93 in pa. But one thing that will solve ALL knock problems! METH!!!!! its amazing stuff.

omegashen · 04-13-2009, 08:07 PM

yeah im looking to get that as my next mod probably a BFMIC too, but those are kinda in the long run, i was looking to be as fast as i can with an 11.5 Afr running the most boost i could on stock turbo.

holmes14 · 04-13-2009, 08:07 PM

Im having a prob. with knock also on 93 pump. Even with the timing at around 18-19 i was getting knock but my afr's are still running a little lean up top so hopefully that will help. Are there any other things that could cause knock, or even false knock?

omegashen · 04-13-2009, 08:10 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by holmes14

Im having a prob. with knock also on 93 pump. Even with the timing at around 18-19 i was getting knock but my afr's are still running a little lean up top so hopefully that will help. Are there any other things that could cause knock, or even false knock?

I was reading on here that 05's have a sensitive knock sensor maby that could be it too? If you have an 05 that is

93stang434 · 04-13-2009, 08:12 PM

X2 on the meth.... i have recently discovered its charm.6* degrees is alot for being false knock....you sure your wideband isn't lying to you.lower the boost and see what happens....change one thing test then change something else and test again thats about all you can do.What are your mods BTW

Nosfurato · 04-13-2009, 08:23 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by omegashen

I dont know what to do im still getting at least 6* total knock retard in my 3rd gear pulls from 4k-6k it cant be fuel im running 10.5 wot till redline i even pulled a couple of degrees of timing as well any suggestions or should i just start pulling the boost down? right now im spiking 18 hold 15 and thats a 7% increase across the board over stock.

Do you have a wideband on the car to check your AFR's?.. or are you using the the open loop AF reading on the predator?

How much timing (if any) are you trying to add??

Are you still on stock injectors?? because it kinda sounds like it.

If you are, its very possible that its being caused by a lean condition. especially if you are trying to add timing on top of it.

Dunno man, help us fill in the gaps. It will get us closer to an answer for ya.

:edit: ok, didn't catch the wideband in your sig.

But, it almost sounds like the same situation I was having with my car,.. just more severe. Started running out of fuel past 4k 5k+ it would go REALLY lean! (stock injectors couldn't keep up) But, that was on a cold assed night in Indiana also. So, I dunno dude. Your sure your AFR's are in the mid 10's at the top of the tach???

omegashen · 04-13-2009, 08:27 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by 93stang434

X2 on the meth.... i have recently discovered its charm.6* degrees is alot for being false knock....you sure your wideband isn't lying to you.lower the boost and see what happens....change one thing test then change something else and test again thats about all you can do.What are your mods BTW

mods are now in my sig and yeah im pretty sure it isnt lying, i had my mechanic install it just to be sure and he has a lot of experience stuff like that, thats why i go to him if its something i cant do but yeah i think im gonna lower the boost just to see what happens. But what do you guys think about the whole gas thing? is there better companies to get it from?

omegashen · 04-13-2009, 08:41 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Nosfurato

Do you have a wideband on the car to check your AFR's?.. or are you using the the open loop AF reading on the predator?

How much timing (if any) are you trying to add??

Are you still on stock injectors?? because it kinda sounds like it.

If you are, its very possible that its being caused by a lean condition. especially if you are trying to add timing on top of it.

Dunno man, help us fill in the gaps. It will get us closer to an answer for ya.

:edit: ok, didn't catch the wideband in your sig.

But, it almost sounds like the same situation I was having with my car,.. just more severe. Started running out of fuel past 4k 5k+ it would go REALLY lean! (stock injectors couldn't keep up) But, that was on a cold assed night in Indiana also. So, I dunno dude. Your sure your AFR's are in the mid 10's at the top of the tach???

Well if it makes it any easier for you guys its 10.6 to 10.9 on the Uego and on the diablo sport it reads high 9's to low 10's so that must prove some accuracy right and yes i am on stock fuel set up, and no im not adding timing im actually pulling it trying to decrease knock. Although after seeing this if you do still insist my gauge is accurate is there anyway to test besides dyno? Oh also everytime i logged i either engaged the clutch or shifted at or around 6k i dont go past that if it helps thats what i mean by redline if anyone is confused.

duster360 · 04-13-2009, 08:58 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by omegashen

I dont know what to do im still getting at least 6* total knock retard in my 3rd gear pulls from 4k-6k it cant be fuel im running 10.5 wot till redline i even pulled a couple of degrees of timing as well any suggestions or should i just start pulling the boost down? right now im spiking 18 hold 15 and thats a 7% increase across the board over stock.

6* of Kr should be able to be heard.

I'd checked the torque the Knock sensor. It should be around 195in-lbs. I'd re-torque it to 183in-lbs(srt8 spec).

sfla_srt4 · 04-13-2009, 09:00 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by omegashen

Well if it makes it any easier for you guys its 10.6 to 10.9 on the Uego and on the diablo sport it reads high 9's to low 10's so that must prove some accuracy right and yes i am on stock fuel set up, and no im not adding timing im actually pulling it trying to decrease knock. Although after seeing this if you do still insist my gauge is accurate is there anyway to test besides dyno? Oh also everytime i logged i either engaged the clutch or shifted at or around 6k i dont go past that if it helps thats what i mean by redline if anyone is confused.

DONT go off of the Diablo, that PID is what the computer "wants", not the actual reading.. Do you have a cat in the DP? Is the UEGO sensor mounted after the cat?? Decrease the boost or try a different station for gas. I feel bad for you 91 guys.

omegashen · 04-13-2009, 09:09 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by sfla_srt4

DONT go off of the Diablo, that PID is what the computer "wants", not the actual reading.. Do you have a cat in the DP? Is the UEGO sensor mounted after the cat?? Decrease the boost or try a different station for gas. I feel bad for you 91 guys.

im not im just saying as a comparison, and no i have no cat and im aiming towards trying different gas or installing stock tune and log that, but the police dept recently released operation crackdown so its harder to log stuff but ill get it and check it out if im still knocking on stock tune then what?

Quote: Originally Posted by duster360

6* of Kr should be able to be heard.

I'd checked the torque the Knock sensor. It should be around 195in-lbs. I'd re-torque it to 183in-lbs(srt8 spec).

Dont hear a damn thing thats another confusing part.

Nosfurato · 04-13-2009, 10:56 PM

Try taking a look at your LT knock, there is a chance that the computer saw something in the past, that it REALLY didn't like a couple of time, and yanked a bunch of timing out in the process. (LT knock)

You said your logging total knock retard, which, in some instances isn't really a bad thing,.. but.. .at the same time, its not telling the entire story.

Try logging ST and LT knock, you don't need total knock when logging both, because total is,.. well.. as it would imply. The total of both long, and short term knock retard.

We may be looking at something as simple as disconnecting the battery for a few mins to clear out the long term tables.

-Will.

04-13-2009, 07:46 PM	#1 (permalink)
omegashen SRTforums Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Member Number: 70734 Location: San Diego Posts: 52	still getting knock I dont know what to do im still getting at least 6* total knock retard in my 3rd gear pulls from 4k-6k it cant be fuel im running 10.5 wot till redline i even pulled a couple of degrees of timing as well any suggestions or should i just start pulling the boost down? right now im spiking 18 hold 15 and thats a 7% increase across the board over stock.

04-13-2009, 07:49 PM	#2 (permalink)
sfla_srt4 SRTforums Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Member Number: 61295 Location: South Florida Posts: 1,492	What kind of gas are you using?? Are you logging ST and LT knock?? __________________

04-13-2009, 07:59 PM	#3 (permalink)
omegashen SRTforums Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Member Number: 70734 Location: San Diego Posts: 52	76 station 91, supposedly its the best 91 octane i heard you can get here in San Diego it has that 10% ethanol crap or something like that but yup im logging everything that i was supposed to from the what to log thread,including st ,lt and tot knock retard, im kinda at a loss here the type of gas or too much boost is all i can think of i changed my plugs today becasue i thought that was it. I changed them to the ngk 4306's gapped to 0.35. Last edited by omegashen; 04-13-2009 at 08:02 PM.

04-13-2009, 08:02 PM	#4 (permalink)
Chief SRTforums Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Member Number: 61336 Location: pa Posts: 6,201	damn 91, i feel bad for you guys. Got 93 in pa. But one thing that will solve ALL knock problems! METH!!!!! its amazing stuff. __________________ Built HTA 60 -CoRn EaTEr- "Shes hunting unsuspecting Evo's and Sti's in their natural environment..."

04-13-2009, 08:07 PM	#5 (permalink)
omegashen SRTforums Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Member Number: 70734 Location: San Diego Posts: 52	yeah im looking to get that as my next mod probably a BFMIC too, but those are kinda in the long run, i was looking to be as fast as i can with an 11.5 Afr running the most boost i could on stock turbo. __________________ Mods: 3" Catless TBE , Turbo Xs Bov H-type, AEM Uego, Diablosport Predator.

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04-13-2009, 08:07 PM	#6 (permalink)
holmes14 SRTforums Member Join Date: May 2008 Member Number: 64416 Location: Menominee, MI Posts: 594	Im having a prob. with knock also on 93 pump. Even with the timing at around 18-19 i was getting knock but my afr's are still running a little lean up top so hopefully that will help. Are there any other things that could cause knock, or even false knock?

04-13-2009, 08:10 PM	#7 (permalink)
omegashen SRTforums Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Member Number: 70734 Location: San Diego Posts: 52	Quote: Originally Posted by holmes14 Im having a prob. with knock also on 93 pump. Even with the timing at around 18-19 i was getting knock but my afr's are still running a little lean up top so hopefully that will help. Are there any other things that could cause knock, or even false knock? I was reading on here that 05's have a sensitive knock sensor maby that could be it too? If you have an 05 that is __________________ Mods: 3" Catless TBE , Turbo Xs Bov H-type, AEM Uego, Diablosport Predator.

04-13-2009, 08:12 PM	#8 (permalink)
93stang434 SRTforums Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Member Number: 49690 Location: indiana Posts: 1,395	X2 on the meth.... i have recently discovered its charm.6* degrees is alot for being false knock....you sure your wideband isn't lying to you.lower the boost and see what happens....change one thing test then change something else and test again thats about all you can do.What are your mods BTW __________________ E1 w/ported 3" anti-surge cover,PTP&LCR fully ported ext.gated exh mani,3" o2 housing,3" B&B tbe AGP dog bones,N2MB WOT box & boost box S2 injectors,diablosport predator,coolingmist w/m 255 pump,rewire,bottleneck mod,returnline MPx bfmic,55 t-body,180 t-stat,DCR oil restrictor Best E.T 12.12 Best MPH 118.71 DR's,full weight Tuned by Nemo from Rage-Tek & myself http://www.srtforums.com/forums/f146...charts-480643/ Last edited by 93stang434; 04-13-2009 at 08:18 PM.

04-13-2009, 08:23 PM	#9 (permalink)
Nosfurato SRTforums Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Member Number: 7593 Location: lala land Posts: 1,028	Quote: Originally Posted by omegashen I dont know what to do im still getting at least 6* total knock retard in my 3rd gear pulls from 4k-6k it cant be fuel im running 10.5 wot till redline i even pulled a couple of degrees of timing as well any suggestions or should i just start pulling the boost down? right now im spiking 18 hold 15 and thats a 7% increase across the board over stock. Do you have a wideband on the car to check your AFR's?.. or are you using the the open loop AF reading on the predator? How much timing (if any) are you trying to add?? Are you still on stock injectors?? because it kinda sounds like it. If you are, its very possible that its being caused by a lean condition. especially if you are trying to add timing on top of it. Dunno man, help us fill in the gaps. It will get us closer to an answer for ya. :edit: ok, didn't catch the wideband in your sig. But, it almost sounds like the same situation I was having with my car,.. just more severe. Started running out of fuel past 4k 5k+ it would go REALLY lean! (stock injectors couldn't keep up) But, that was on a cold assed night in Indiana also. So, I dunno dude. Your sure your AFR's are in the mid 10's at the top of the tach??? __________________ Stage 1 ECM (NOT stock), Diablosport Predator, 3 bar map and tip, Interceptor Scangauge, AEM wideband, 750's (no return-line), MPX BFMIC, Walbro 255, DCR top end modifier, AGP WGA, 3 in O2 housing, QTP 3in downpipe with E-cutout stock catback, Nitrous Oxide Systems 65 shot, motor mount inserts Best MPH to date on the bottle,??? Off the bottle 119.45. with the E1. best ET 12.44. on borrowed DR's. stock Turbo stock Mani netted 113.55 (no sauce) Last edited by Nosfurato; 04-13-2009 at 08:30 PM.

04-13-2009, 08:27 PM	#10 (permalink)
omegashen SRTforums Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Member Number: 70734 Location: San Diego Posts: 52	Quote: Originally Posted by 93stang434 X2 on the meth.... i have recently discovered its charm.6* degrees is alot for being false knock....you sure your wideband isn't lying to you.lower the boost and see what happens....change one thing test then change something else and test again thats about all you can do.What are your mods BTW mods are now in my sig and yeah im pretty sure it isnt lying, i had my mechanic install it just to be sure and he has a lot of experience stuff like that, thats why i go to him if its something i cant do but yeah i think im gonna lower the boost just to see what happens. But what do you guys think about the whole gas thing? is there better companies to get it from? __________________ Mods: 3" Catless TBE , Turbo Xs Bov H-type, AEM Uego, Diablosport Predator.

04-13-2009, 08:41 PM	#11 (permalink)
omegashen SRTforums Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Member Number: 70734 Location: San Diego Posts: 52	Quote: Originally Posted by Nosfurato Do you have a wideband on the car to check your AFR's?.. or are you using the the open loop AF reading on the predator? How much timing (if any) are you trying to add?? Are you still on stock injectors?? because it kinda sounds like it. If you are, its very possible that its being caused by a lean condition. especially if you are trying to add timing on top of it. Dunno man, help us fill in the gaps. It will get us closer to an answer for ya. :edit: ok, didn't catch the wideband in your sig. But, it almost sounds like the same situation I was having with my car,.. just more severe. Started running out of fuel past 4k 5k+ it would go REALLY lean! (stock injectors couldn't keep up) But, that was on a cold assed night in Indiana also. So, I dunno dude. Your sure your AFR's are in the mid 10's at the top of the tach??? Well if it makes it any easier for you guys its 10.6 to 10.9 on the Uego and on the diablo sport it reads high 9's to low 10's so that must prove some accuracy right and yes i am on stock fuel set up, and no im not adding timing im actually pulling it trying to decrease knock. Although after seeing this if you do still insist my gauge is accurate is there anyway to test besides dyno? Oh also everytime i logged i either engaged the clutch or shifted at or around 6k i dont go past that if it helps thats what i mean by redline if anyone is confused. __________________ Mods: 3" Catless TBE , Turbo Xs Bov H-type, AEM Uego, Diablosport Predator.

04-13-2009, 08:58 PM	#12 (permalink)
duster360 SRTforums Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Member Number: 45182 Location: Central IL Posts: 5,632	Quote: Originally Posted by omegashen I dont know what to do im still getting at least 6* total knock retard in my 3rd gear pulls from 4k-6k it cant be fuel im running 10.5 wot till redline i even pulled a couple of degrees of timing as well any suggestions or should i just start pulling the boost down? right now im spiking 18 hold 15 and thats a 7% increase across the board over stock. 6* of Kr should be able to be heard. I'd checked the torque the Knock sensor. It should be around 195in-lbs. I'd re-torque it to 183in-lbs(srt8 spec). __________________ "Just because someone goes fast doesn't mean you should do whatever you think they did. This path assumes they knew what they were doing, which isn't necessarily the case"..........RB Racing TDS is the best choice for ALL your CMR Tuning.

04-13-2009, 09:00 PM	#13 (permalink)
sfla_srt4 SRTforums Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Member Number: 61295 Location: South Florida Posts: 1,492	Quote: Originally Posted by omegashen Well if it makes it any easier for you guys its 10.6 to 10.9 on the Uego and on the diablo sport it reads high 9's to low 10's so that must prove some accuracy right and yes i am on stock fuel set up, and no im not adding timing im actually pulling it trying to decrease knock. Although after seeing this if you do still insist my gauge is accurate is there anyway to test besides dyno? Oh also everytime i logged i either engaged the clutch or shifted at or around 6k i dont go past that if it helps thats what i mean by redline if anyone is confused. DONT go off of the Diablo, that PID is what the computer "wants", not the actual reading.. Do you have a cat in the DP? Is the UEGO sensor mounted after the cat?? Decrease the boost or try a different station for gas. I feel bad for you 91 guys. __________________

04-13-2009, 09:09 PM	#14 (permalink)
omegashen SRTforums Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Member Number: 70734 Location: San Diego Posts: 52	Quote: Originally Posted by sfla_srt4 DONT go off of the Diablo, that PID is what the computer "wants", not the actual reading.. Do you have a cat in the DP? Is the UEGO sensor mounted after the cat?? Decrease the boost or try a different station for gas. I feel bad for you 91 guys. im not im just saying as a comparison, and no i have no cat and im aiming towards trying different gas or installing stock tune and log that, but the police dept recently released operation crackdown so its harder to log stuff but ill get it and check it out if im still knocking on stock tune then what? Quote: Originally Posted by duster360 6* of Kr should be able to be heard. I'd checked the torque the Knock sensor. It should be around 195in-lbs. I'd re-torque it to 183in-lbs(srt8 spec). Dont hear a damn thing thats another confusing part. __________________ Mods: 3" Catless TBE , Turbo Xs Bov H-type, AEM Uego, Diablosport Predator.

04-13-2009, 10:56 PM	#15 (permalink)
Nosfurato SRTforums Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Member Number: 7593 Location: lala land Posts: 1,028	Try taking a look at your LT knock, there is a chance that the computer saw something in the past, that it REALLY didn't like a couple of time, and yanked a bunch of timing out in the process. (LT knock) You said your logging total knock retard, which, in some instances isn't really a bad thing,.. but.. .at the same time, its not telling the entire story. Try logging ST and LT knock, you don't need total knock when logging both, because total is,.. well.. as it would imply. The total of both long, and short term knock retard. We may be looking at something as simple as disconnecting the battery for a few mins to clear out the long term tables. -Will. __________________ Stage 1 ECM (NOT stock), Diablosport Predator, 3 bar map and tip, Interceptor Scangauge, AEM wideband, 750's (no return-line), MPX BFMIC, Walbro 255, DCR top end modifier, AGP WGA, 3 in O2 housing, QTP 3in downpipe with E-cutout stock catback, Nitrous Oxide Systems 65 shot, motor mount inserts Best MPH to date on the bottle,??? Off the bottle 119.45. with the E1. best ET 12.44. on borrowed DR's. stock Turbo stock Mani netted 113.55 (no sauce)

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