sickening. I hate this country, we do not any longer live under the constitution in any way.
The constitution is gone. Done.
i'm sorry but this really bothers me. i'm not usually one to get in a discussion about this stuff, but really...you hate this country? maybe you should move then if it bothers you so much. if our country is so bad, why are people doing everything in their power to move here? you have the ability to do anything you want in this country because people make a decision to lay their life on the line so that you can continue to have this freedom. these same people waive their rights so that you can continue to have yours.
maybe you feel that the constitution is gone because of all the retarded people that get voted into office by saying one thing then do something different once in office because they lied? these same people get into office with one goal, changing the constitution to better fit their lifestyle. stop voting for people just because of party affiliation, gender, race, or color. do some research on policies or the message they are delivering.
I didnt read all the posts in this thread so It may have been said already. Those "protestors" were throwing rocks at officers, damaging property such as cars, a Boston Market restraunt, a BMW dealership, among other things.
When this happends your rights no longer apply, one person having the right to free speech does not trump another persons rights. You dont have the right to infinge on others, destroy property, or attack law enforcement.
Im not real fond of the g20 either, but you cant break the law to make your point or you hurt your cause more than help it.
Something interesting I remember from my sociology classes was a discussion we had about uniforms. There were studies done in the 60's i believe that showed the effect of uniforms and authority on people. The studies showed that regular people, after putting on their uniform, acted completely different and did things they would never do when not in uniform. This study was a prison environment that they created. After a couple days, the people were almost forgetting who they were. "Prisoners" were acting like prisoners and "guards" were acting like guards.The experiment got out of hand and was aborted. It was some crazy shit. (this was all done before the ethics we have now existed)
I believe these studies to be similar to what happens at these protests when things go bad.
Maybe, what you referring to was whats called the "Stanford Prison Experiment". The big difference is that officers are not a random sampling of Stanford students from the early 70s. Those young men, mostly, would have been raised by the postwar generation who listened to Dr Spock. Your officers generally dont come from a Stanford kind of background, and have all been taught about that experiment and the dangers thereof. Forewarned is forarmed.
Now, as I said before, there does develop an "Us vs Them" attitude, which both sides need to take care to not excaberate that situation. As I said, police know very well what happens if the crowd changes into a mob. As do the instigators. The police have a very vested intertest in the crowd NOT becoming a mob. Mobs destroy property and injure people, things the officers are trying to prevent. Instigators, on the other hand, many of whom believe the ends justify the means, dont care about others people property or well being.
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I used to own one of the first SRT-4s sold, bought it new in Feb 2003, sold it Nov 2006 with 75K and Stage 3. Now I drive a 2006 SRT-8 Charger.
I didnt read all the posts in this thread so It may have been said already. Those "protestors" were throwing rocks at officers, damaging property such as cars, a Boston Market restraunt, a BMW dealership, among other things.
When this happends your rights no longer apply, one person having the right to free speech does not trump another persons rights. You dont have the right to infinge on others, destroy property, or attack law enforcement.
Im not real fond of the g20 either, but you cant break the law to make your point or you hurt your cause more than help it.
See, heres where the infiltration thing comes in. The conspiratorial view says the few folks in the crowd actually engaging in such acts are actually LEOs inciting for the purpose of then allowing the uniformed guys to open the box o' whupass. The LEO view is that the hooligans are anarchists/other extreme groups.
One view requires me to believe that in every department, in every city, there are folks willing to do this thing, and act against their sworn oaths in such a way. Thats a pretty big stretch, know officers like I do.
The other view requires me to believe that anarchists are acting in exactly the way they publicly state they will.
Yeah I've been looking at this again and fully believe there were instigators in the crowd that brought on the crowd control stuff.
I am also sure the videos have been conveniently edited as well. Look at the beginning to the video with the police line banging on their shields. The banging doesn't start until just a little bit into the video. What was happening prior to that I wonder?
I also feel it is OK that the guard was there given that there were delegates from all over the world present.
This appears to me to be a different situation than what happened in seattle.
Okay, very good. Although I tend to doubt those particular protesters in that last video were violent at any time before the video started, we can assume that, that's fine. Except the national guard being called for civilian rule is still either violation of the posse comitatus act, or martial law has been declared due to a state of emergency... it doesn't matter how many foreign leaders are on our soil, they are not granted any power here in the United States save diplomatic immunity. They don't get to use our military to 'protect' them from our citizens.
Although, does anyone mind commenting about the anarchists in the 30 minute WTO 1999 video? What makes that situation different than this one? They were the ones who originally set the martial law precedent whenever there is an important protest, and they were given complete control of the situation by those who ordered the police to stand down! (according to all the mainstream media clips in that 30 minute youtube compilation).
That is where your theory of tens of thousands of police officers having to be in on some giant conspiracy fails GLHS. They don't have to know dick about whats going on, all they have to do is follow orders, which according to the video above, and everything I've ever experienced from police, it isn't very difficult to manipulate an uneducated police officer to do just that. Give them a false reason to follow orders like blac block anarchists, or suspected terrorists, or any other bullshit propaganda tool to make them think they are doing what needs to be done, and bam... protest shut down. I don't think police all over the nation are conspiring to shut down protests, but they are contributing because they don't know any better.
It is clear that anarchists are used ALL over the world to shut down meaningful protests against world government meetings (wto, g20, IMF/world bank) almost every time, or its just a coincidence that anarchists from everywhere choose these meetings and apparently only these meetings to cause problems. Where were they at the town hall meetings? Where do these anarchists come from? I don't know, but it is no coincidence that they were given immunity from arrest in 99, because otherwise 30-40 people would have absolutely NO ability to persuade the media to hype the idea that 1st amendment protests are dangerous, and before they were given immunity to cause destruction it would have been LAUGHABLE to Americans the idea that a handful of people tipping over garbage cans had the power to put a city in the state of MARTIAL LAW.
Of course, we see the opposite, we've managed to get the American citizen cheering on everyone BUT the people using their 1st amendment rights.
For the record, it doesn't take a whole lot of smarts or planning (whether hired on the spot locally or fucking sent all over the world for money to do this) by any government to get a handful of guys to cause problems if promised immunity and who knows maybe some money or a cleared criminal record or ANYTHING really. If Jim Jones can get 900 Americans to drink cyanide, I'm pretty sure the governments of the world can get some hyper shmucks to tip over mailboxes and break windows. It doesn't have to involve tens of thousands of police officers being in some plot. They just by and large have to be naive like the rest of Americans.
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'conspiracy theorist' is a label used by the elite to dismiss the fact powerful people get together and actually plan anything.
"Single acts of tyranny may be ascribed to the accidental opinion of a day. But a series of oppressions, begun at a distinguished period, and pursued unalterably through every change of ministers (administrations), too plainly proves a deliberate systematic plan of reducing us to slavery." - Thomas Jefferson
Last edited by VegasSRT-4 : 09-26-2009 at 10:22 AM.
Really what I'm asking for is commentary on what happened in the 1999 WTO protests with the anarchists being given immunity from police arrest. Those ~40 people set the stage for all future g20/imf/wto protests being shut down on account of martial law, and set the stage for American's being anti-protest or seeing protesters as radical as the mainstream media has pushed that point since, so it is kind of important to grasp what happened on those days.
My guess about the guard being there is that it was "preemptive." We seem to do everything preemptive now.. you know like preemptive wars and stuff..
The governor probably figured there would be trouble and decided to call in the guard just in case. Is there anything saying martial law was declared or not yet?
The governor or POTUS can call up the NG whenever they feel like it. You don't need any justification. If they feel that current police numbers aren't enough to handle a situation AND also continue to respond to their normal calls, the NG will be used. They are there for crowd control, they are not assuming a police role as they aren't arresting anyone, they might be detaining them, but not arresting them.
Without response to the anarchists being given immunity to arrest which the whole 'protesters are violent' argument is hinging on, I will not change the subject. But I want to reply to that later Jim.
I would like to see a credible source where anarchists are being given immunity. That should be the big story if it is really happening.
I posted it on the front page due to a request because I got called out for it not being true then of course nobody watched it. 30 minutes worth of compilations of mainstream media television reports, along with officer testimony that they were ordered to stand down. It was a big story, that nobody listened to because the mainstream media brushed over it and focused on those nasty anarchists are and how many windows they broke and garbage cans they knocked over.
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lol @ this thread
vegas did your mom not give you enough attention as a child
I got plenty of attention as a child, that's why I actually give a fuck about my country enough to feel obligated to try to warn people that its going down and how, no matter how many douche bags try to put me down for it. Plus I have a *gasp* girlfriend that I see almost every night. My life is fine, how is yours?
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