I've got a couple of Mr Heaters and battery radios/tv and food for the coming ice storms when the power goes out. I had hoped it would be a warm winter but we will see.
It's called climate change now. They realized that it doesn't warm everything, as the weather patterns change currents change rainfall patterns change, wind changes.
So, in a country like Australia they have seen the largest droughts in few hundred years as the rainfall is now mostly going into the ocean. They just had the biggest dustorm covering most of the east coast as the top soil was blown off of the farmers land, covering 2 states in dust. They had a few days of 95+ degree days in the middle of their winter.
We also still have a number of islands increasingly under water, glaciers that had been around for thousands of years disappearing. Coral bleaching as water temps rise, huge chunks of Antarctica dropping into the ocean, massive increase in natural disasters in recent years. Plenty of evidence of climate change, a couple of cool years doesn't mean that scientific evidence goes out the window.
It's called climate change now. They realized that it doesn't warm everything, as the weather patterns change currents change rainfall patterns change, wind changes.
So, in a country like Australia they have seen the largest droughts in few hundred years as the rainfall is now mostly going into the ocean. They just had the biggest dustorm covering most of the east coast as the top soil was blown off of the farmers land, covering 2 states in dust. They had a few days of 95+ degree days in the middle of their winter.
We also still have a number of islands increasingly under water, glaciers that had been around for thousands of years disappearing. Coral bleaching as water temps rise, huge chunks of Antarctica dropping into the ocean, massive increase in natural disasters in recent years. Plenty of evidence of climate change, a couple of cool years doesn't mean that scientific evidence goes out the window.
You do know that there is LOTS of Glacier EXPANSION going on right?
The "evidence" for global climate change is skewed. It ignores the output of the sun, and it ignores the insulative characteristic of the ocean, and it ignores current change etc. Glaciers are NOT stationary objects. They are constantly moving, shifting, shrinking and growing. That video that shows "Huge chunks" falling into the ocean, that happens every year, during that pesky season called "SUMMER" But sure, buy into the chicken little sky is falling argument and the ONLY way to make it stop is if you BUY things that are "environmentally friendly" & carbon credits.
Algore is laughing all the way to the bank with his little lambs waiting outside for scrapes of grass.
Ship our manufacturing overseas to slaves who don't care about the environment. Cut the water from our farmers to save a sardine. Buy oil from our enemies instead of using our vast amounts of energy that God gave us to use. Oh, I'm sorry there is no God that made this universe!
These two geniuses you claim, who offer this incredible graph as 'proof' that we have natural cycles and not climate change. Global Temperature Trends Since 2500 B.C.
No need for advanced atmospheric analysis or checking carbon levels, where do they source that graph? Well they get it from 2 books they read.
Where can you find those cutting edge books filled with scientific analysis of our climate? Here's one - Amazon.com: Climate and the Affairs of Men (9780061295508): Nels Winkless III, Iben Browning: Books Looks really professional huh, a source you can trust for scientific analysis of the climate? What about the other book they cite, surely it is a quality scientific paper published by a renowned university? Nope, it's published by 'tide press', a company who don't even have a website. Another work published by the author out of his backyard without any of those pesky rigorous academic standards that published scientific works have to go through.
Those 2 guys rarely source any of their claims and when they do it is another shoddy anti-climate change website or self published book. Why self published? Because they don't stand up to the critiques of the scientific community.
So you have a choice, listen to the skeptics on dodgy websites like that and consider that 'proof' or you can visit some of these sites and view scientifically gathered evidence:
These two geniuses you claim, who offer this incredible graph as 'proof' that we have natural cycles and not climate change. Global Temperature Trends Since 2500 B.C.
No need for advanced atmospheric analysis or checking carbon levels, where do they source that graph? Well they get it from 2 books they read.
Where can you find those cutting edge books filled with scientific analysis of our climate? Here's one - Amazon.com: Climate and the Affairs of Men (9780061295508): Nels Winkless III, Iben Browning: Books Looks really professional huh, a source you can trust for scientific analysis of the climate? What about the other book they cite, surely it is a quality scientific paper published by a renowned university? Nope, it's published by 'tide press', a company who don't even have a website. Another work published by the author out of his backyard without any of those pesky rigorous academic standards that published scientific works have to go through.
Those 2 guys rarely source any of their claims and when they do it is another shoddy anti-climate change website or self published book. Why self published? Because they don't stand up to the critiques of the scientific community.
So you have a choice, listen to the skeptics on dodgy websites like that and consider that 'proof' or you can visit some of these sites and view scientifically gathered evidence:
What you do with that science is up to you, but at least you be relying on shoddy websites with no scientific credibility as your 'proof'.
There's all the proof you need jackass. GE, and all these "scientists" stand to make the largest fortune ever known if Cap & Trade passes. Follow the money. Who's getting filthy rich off all this chicken little nonsense. You don't need a degree in climatology to know that the sun has far more impact to global temperatures than man made pollution. Lower solar output = cooler water=cooler global temperatures. Higher solar output = warmer water = warmer global temperatures.
And the one thing that these climate change experts have never been able to explain, is how the earth has undergone MUCH larger swings in cooling and warming, yet have had ZERO emissions from industry because they weren't in existence yet. You need only go back a few hundred to a few thousand years and you see far larger swings in climate and weather patterns than we've seen since the evil wicked bad polluting industrial revolution.
That's not proof buddy, it's willful ignorance with a dose of paranoia.
I'm no scientist, and I don't even know if climate change is caused by humans. I just know that the science shows it is happening. Posting jibberish off websites with no scientific merit will land you nowhere in the debate.
Choose rationalism, empiricism and evidence, don't be ignorant on the issue. You can read about the real science, find flaws in the real science and deny climate change if you wish. But don't bring paranoid delusion and shoddy science to the debate, it's pointless.
ah the frequently quoted Oregon petition.
Did you know it was signed by Perry Mason, Redwine, Ph.D., and one of the Spice Girls? Yes a spice girl is considered a scientist in those circles.
From http://www.skepdic.com/comments/climatecom.html:
"Scientific American took a sample of 30 of the 1,400 signatories claiming to hold a Ph.D. in a climate-related science. Of the 26 we were able to identify in various databases, 11 said they still agreed with the petition—one was an active climate researcher, two others had relevant expertise, and eight signed based on an informal evaluation. Six said they would not sign the petition today, three did not remember any such petition, one had died, and five did not answer repeated messages. Crudely extrapolating, the petition supporters include a core of about 200 climate researchers—a respectable number, though rather a small fraction of the climatological community."
So, 200, is still a decent number. If they publish the real science, then the debate is on. They aren't publishing science that stands up to scientific standards, a petition is not the same as publishing a vetted scientific paper which proves either the climate is not changing in an adverse way or proving it is not linked to CO2 emissions. A petition is one thing, a properly audited scientific paper is another.
Last edited by fugazzied : 10-12-2009 at 12:17 AM.
Reason: Edit: Oregon petition.
Paranoia??? those that refute the "popular" consensus aren't claiming that the earth is going to drown in melted glaciers, that NY is going to be under ice, and we're ALL GOING TO DIE if we don't get mercury filled light bulbs and kill all those damn farting cows.
Oh and I'm still waiting for an explanation on how there were cycles of greater swings in earth temperature and Co2 levels BEFORE industrialization.
I think those climate change alarmists are just as bad as the climate change deniers. Climate change probably won't be like: The Day After Tomorrow (2004)
IF the science is correct, that means some big changes for food production, for where people can live and what's underwater and so on. Even if the skeptics disagree about the role carbon plays in climate change, IF they believe the tracking on ice coverage, sea levels, rainfall changes are correct (IPCC - Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change), natural cycle or not, it's a problem. Those IPCC figures are hard to disagree on because they have been proven empirically, the role carbon plays in climate change up for debate though.
If it's just the sun heating up or tectonic plates, or something we have no control over, and it continues getting worse, we may be screwed.
Volcanoes emit more toxic shit into the atmosphere than man could ever produce. I remember when Mt. St. Helens erupted. The news reports were that that area would be in a winter like state for decades. That plants wouldn't grow for thousands of years because of all the toxic shit that came out of it. Well guess what...they were wrong. They were wrong in the 70's about a coming ice age, who's to say they've gotten it right this time?
I doubt that man-made pollution has zero effect on the climate. That said, I see no reason to go all uber green when china is set to pass us on emissions in the near future. Fuck it.. Live by the ocean? Might want to buy a house in the hills just in case
Even if we really fucked up the planet what's the worse thing that could happen? Humans become extinct? After 1000 years without us the planet would be back to normal. Meh..
I doubt that man-made pollution has zero effect on the climate. That said, I see no reason to go all uber green when china is set to pass us on emissions in the near future. Fuck it.. Live by the ocean? Might want to buy a house in the hills just in case
Even if we really fucked up the planet what's the worse thing that could happen? Humans become extinct? After 1000 years without us the planet would be back to normal. Meh..
Many scientist say that man only contributes only 1.5 percent of global pollution. A lot of times we contribute to this problem by boondoggles like producing ethanol which is more damaging to produce than just cleaning up oil.
Even though we must keep the planet as clean as possible, let us remember that people like Algore and the rich are getting richer on this, the biggest scam ever imposed on mankind.
By manufacturing our products overseas to Countries that don't care about pollution doesn't help global pollution. Stopping oil from being produced in this Country doesn't help global pollution either.
We have become a non productive Country because of these radicals and until we can vote the radicals out and return common sense to our government then we will soon live like people in Cuba.
Many scientist say that man only contributes only 1.5 percent of global pollution. A lot of times we contribute to this problem by boondoggles like producing ethanol which is more damaging to produce than just cleaning up oil.
Even though we must keep the planet as clean as possible, let us remember that people like Algore and the rich are getting richer on this, the biggest scam ever imposed on mankind.
By manufacturing our products overseas to Countries that don't care about pollution doesn't help global pollution. Stopping oil from being produced in this Country doesn't help global pollution either.
We have become a non productive Country because of these radicals and until we can vote the radicals out and return common sense to our government then we will soon live like people in Cuba.
I believe there are more important issues regarding the environment that co2 emissions. Like mercury pollution, the worlds oceans are poisoned to the point that the larger fish we eat are only safe in moderation. Open pit mining leaches acid into ground water and kills lakes and streams. Deforestation of the rainforests is taking away the earths largest resource in natural air scrubbers. You can go on and on with things that are more important than co2.
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Hey! What happened to Global Warming?
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