the xbox360 has done NOTHING since it became $280, and plenty of people were buying wii's for 350+. i don't think price is really a factor.. and i don't think you can fairly call "simple" or "fun" a novelty. these are just basic concepts.
Well the 360 doesn't have motion controls so there is no novelty for the average consumer that the Wii has.
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that's what happens when systems have the largest install base and lowest development costs. in either case, it's flawed/retarded logic to judge a system by the number of bad games on it. judge it by the number of GOOD games. i guarantee that you don't like the vast majority of songs on itunes, but THAT wouldn't stop you from buying an iPod would it? it only matters how many songs you LIKE are on it.
Well the system doesn't have that many great games on it. Most of them are from Nintendo that are the same tried and true through all their systems. Most third parties don't sell well and there are very few gems like No More Heroes from third parties. Wii sells, but Wii games don't sell.
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it's getting there. i wouldn't say it's "doing nice" yet. every single game that was supposed to be "the one" flopped, with the exception of mgs4.. it took over a year for them to match the basic capabilities of the xbox as far as messaging, and even at that, their solution is currently ruining people's consoles(well,.. not ruining people's consoles because they yanked it).
Don't talk about ruin people's consoles because the fall update for the 360 back in the day bricked a lot of systems and it was never pulled, let alone RROD. MGS4 and FFXIII are like the ones. Only Lair and Haze basically flopped. Uncharted and Ratchet received a lot of praise and sales. What is a flop in terms of sales because even the awesomeness that is Bioshock didn't sell over 2 million with PC combined.
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that WOULD have been the case, but with the extremely shaky start of the ps3 they would have been fine launching at the same time. they jumped in front by a year, and STILL had features that sony missed and is still missing to this day. FACT.
360 sold because there was no other choice for next gen gaming. Even with its shaky start PS3 has outsold the 360 worldwide since its launch. IF it launched at the same time PS3 would have an higher install based. It would have been ok but it would have been in third.
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im really not sure why the 360 has stagnated so badly.. but im convinced that a lot of ps3's are still moving based on movies as opposed to games.. i just dont understand why anyone other than a mgs nut(or someone who's not into games at all and is just buying based on name) would choose the ps3 today based on the games available.
Well considering that you can fine most of the biggest games on both systems but you need a PS3 to play MGS4, Uncharted, Ratchet, etc. You don't need a 360 to play Gears, Bioshock, Mass Effect, etc. people are choosing PS3 over 360 and not for movies since games are selling well on PS3 just as 360 for instance Devil May Cry 4.
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case in point: sony is still showing commercials featuring 2 out of 3 games that are not on shelves yet. FACT.
Have you seen the commercial? I don't think you have. It shows MGS4, Gran Turismo 5 Prolouge and Little Big Planet. I know if I walk in the store I can buy MGS4 and GT5:P right now. So your FACT is just a lie. It even says coming soon under Little Big Planet in the beginning.
PSN does what I need it to do. Play online without dropping, chat,etc all for free. I get no lag, never have. If you guys don't like the PS3 thats cool but its outselling the 360 worldwide and 360's 10 million unit headstart is now less than 5 million units not including June's MGS4 numbers. You may get why people want a PS3 but people are choosing it more than the 360 and for games as well.
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Last edited by Dealnightfire : 07-07-2008 at 10:14 PM.
Well the system doesn't have that many great games on it. Most of them are from Nintendo that are the same tried and true through all their systems. Most third parties don't sell well and there are very few gems like No More Heroes from third parties. Wii sells, but Wii games don't sell.
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Don't talk about ruin people's consoles because the fall update for the 360 back in the day bricked a lot of systems
source?
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Only Lair and Haze basically flopped.
and heavenly sword, which got mediocre reviews
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Uncharted and Ratchet received a lot of praise and sales.
yes but neither was hyped up as being "a big game". they were more like surpise/sleeper hits. sony wasnt even showing games in their commercials when those games came out.. bad marketing!
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What is a flop in terms of sales because even the awesomeness that is Bioshock didn't sell over 2 million with PC combined.
source? the only thing i could find was that it sold a million copies in it's first month, and that by September they had shipped 1.5million copies. I find it really hard to believe that 500k or fewer were sold in the following 10 months, especially after the awards and praise started leaking out.
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360 sold because there was no other choice for next gen gaming. Even with its shaky start PS3 has outsold the 360 worldwide since its launch.
Nope. They sold at the same pace until week 59, when the PS3 started selling at a faster pace.
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IF it launched at the same time PS3 would have an higher install based. It would have been ok but it would have been in third.
yes, after 59 weeks.
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Well considering that you can fine most of the biggest games on both systems but you need a PS3 to play MGS4, Uncharted, Ratchet, etc. You don't need a 360 to play Gears, Bioshock, Mass Effect, etc. people are choosing PS3 over 360 and not for movies since games are selling well on PS3 just as 360 for instance Devil May Cry 4.
The attach rate of the ps3 is nearly HALF that of the 360, and also lower than the Wii(which everyone claims doesn't sell software.. fact is that it does.). the numbers referenced are 2 months old..so should be pretty accurate unless something dramatic happened since then.
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Have you seen the commercial? I don't think you have. It shows MGS4, Gran Turismo 5 Prolouge and Little Big Planet. I know if I walk in the store I can buy MGS4 and GT5:P right now. So your FACT is just a lie. It even says coming soon under Little Big Planet in the beginning.
so now you show a demo for a game that isn't out and say it's out because the demo is. good marketing for sony, i guess.. if people fall for it.
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PSN does what I need it to do. Play online without dropping, chat,etc all for free. I get no lag, never have.
thats good and i hope they get it as good as Live so MS has to drop their subscription model..
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You may get why people want a PS3 but people are choosing it more than the 360 and for games as well.
..and lets not forget how much sony had to bleed themselves to get it to an attractive price point.
Good news and bad news. The bad news is that the update is bricking some consoles, the good news is that Microsoft is on the case and hopes to have the problem fixed with a dash update soon.
Microsoft has been sued over an allegation that its XBox 360 Fall Update (ie: a mandatory XBox 360 download) caused a total system malfunction (turned the units into “bricks”) for some users.
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and heavenly sword, which got mediocre reviews
Heavenly Sword (ps3: 2007): Reviews
I guess a 79 on metacritic means mediocre
Wouldn't that make Lost Odyssey (78) and Blue Dragon (79) mediocre especially when you stated Blue Dragon is highly recommended. Maybe you should play Heavenly Sword first I guess.
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yes but neither was hyped up as being "a big game". they were more like surpise/sleeper hits. sony wasnt even showing games in their commercials when those games came out.. bad marketing!
source? the only thing i could find was that it sold a million copies in it's first month, and that by September they had shipped 1.5million copies. I find it really hard to believe that 500k or fewer were sold in the following 10 months, especially after the awards and praise started leaking out.
BioShock®, a wholly owned and internally developed title for Xbox 360 and Games for Windows® shipped over 2.2 million units since its debut in late August.
This was since June 5th 2008 so only 700K were shipped out since then. Not saying Bioshock is a bad game as it is an awesome game and I wish it sold more.
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Nope. They sold at the same pace until week 59, when the PS3 started selling at a faster pace.
360 sold better in US and didn't beat PS3 anywhere else. Worldwide PS3 always sold better than 360. Sometimes marginally better and then later on a lot better. If MS had came out the same time as PS3 people would have a choice. The year lead is the reason why the 360 is where it is. IF it came out at the same time it would have started in third and stayed in third among next gen consoles. When given the choice people have went Wii, PS3 and then 360.
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The attach rate of the ps3 is nearly HALF that of the 360, and also lower than the Wii(which everyone claims doesn't sell software.. fact is that it does.). the numbers referenced are 2 months old..so should be pretty accurate unless something dramatic happened since then.
Attach rate numbers are great. Did you know that if a game is sold with the system it counts as a 1 game attached? Hence Wii Sports helps and also throw in that Wii Play sells a lot since it has a controller with it and thats already two less games on their attach rate. 360 has a decent attach rate because XBLA games count as well. Let me not go there because I don't want to seem like I'm taking anything away from the 360 since they do have decent attach rates. Also the numbers you quote which are Xbox 360 7.5 games, followed by the Wii at 5.3, DS at 4.7, PS3 at 4.6, and PSP at 4.2.
The average Wii owner buys only 3.7 games a year, compared with 4.7 for Xbox 360 owners and 4.6 for PlayStation 3 owners, said a Wedbush Morgan analyst, Michael Pachter. “It reflects the broadening of the demographic,” he said. “Nintendo’s market doesn’t feel the same sense of urgency to buy every game that’s coming out.”
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so now you show a demo for a game that isn't out and say it's out because the demo is. good marketing for sony, i guess.. if people fall for it.
Still a "demo" that has more than some full racing games that charge you $60. You just hate everything Sony and even though you were wrong about the commercial you try to spin it now that oh they suck for showing that.
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thats good and i hope they get it as good as Live so MS has to drop their subscription model..
Why would MS drop it? You pay for it and do you even know what your paying for?
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..and lets not forget how much sony had to bleed themselves to get it to an attractive price point.
So did MS. Only Nintendo is the only one that didn't have to lose money on their console. Don't forget that the 360 is dropping the price again to spur some sales because once again people are choosing the higher priced system for a reason.
You hate Sony and the PS3 so I don't expect you to be unbiased with your opinion and reporting of "facts" as you call them.
Last edited by Dealnightfire : 07-09-2008 at 05:56 PM.
hadnt heard anything about that. i got my 360 THE DAY that update came out so i guess i was too busy playing
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Heavenly Sword (ps3: 2007): Reviews
I guess a 79 on metacritic means mediocre
Wouldn't that make Lost Odyssey (78) and Blue Dragon (79) mediocre especially when you stated Blue Dragon is highly recommended. Maybe you should play Heavenly Sword first I guess.
yes.. 70's = average . i happened to love blue dragon.. most people did not. and to be clear.. i was recommending it at $40, which is what i paid for it. not $60.
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This was since June 5th 2008 so only 700K were shipped out since then. Not saying Bioshock is a bad game as it is an awesome game and I wish it sold more.
..and still 2.2 million isn't bad.. especially for a brand new IP
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Attach rate numbers are great. Did you know that if a game is sold with the system it counts as a 1 game attached? Hence Wii Sports helps and also throw in that Wii Play sells a lot since it has a controller with it and thats already two less games on their attach rate. 360 has a decent attach rate because XBLA games count as well. Let me not go there because I don't want to seem like I'm taking anything away from the 360 since they do have decent attach rates.
bundle games and digital games do not count on the attach rates that the NPD reports. they dont touch digital downloads whatsoever and bundle games dont have their own sales figures
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Still a "demo" that has more than some full racing games that charge you $60. You just hate everything Sony and even though you were wrong about the commercial you try to spin it now that oh they suck for showing that.
nope. it's still a demo.
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Why would MS drop it? You pay for it and do you even know what your paying for?
yeah, im paying because that's the console i have and i want to play online. they would obviously drop it to attract more customers. but to force them into that, the competition has to be competition. that means things like not haveing 4 different usernames to play Metal Gear Solid online or friend codes that you have to trade via email or phone.
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So did MS. Only Nintendo is the only one that didn't have to lose money on their console. Don't forget that the 360 is dropping the price again to spur some sales because once again people are choosing the higher priced system for a reason.
microsoft is in the black on the 360 last i heard(i could be wrong and i dont care enough to look it up)
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You hate Sony and the PS3 so I don't expect you to be unbiased with your opinion and reporting of "facts" as you call them.
i dont hate sony at all.. the ps2 was my favorite console for many years and it's still hooked up.. and i plan on buying a ps3 relatively soon.
hadnt heard anything about that. i got my 360 THE DAY that update came out so i guess i was too busy playing
Well now you know and knowing is half the battle.
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yes.. 70's = average . i happened to love blue dragon.. most people did not. and to be clear.. i was recommending it at $40, which is what i paid for it. not $60.
So now when its a 360 game its average? 5 is average. When its average is 79 it means the reviews as a whole think the game is above average.
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..and still 2.2 million isn't bad.. especially for a brand new IP
It is great especially on two platforms. Considering that Warhawk, Heavenly Sword, Uncharted, Motorstorm, Ratchet and Clank all sold over a million each and being a new ip on one platform with a lower install base I hardly consider them flops.
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bundle games and digital games do not count on the attach rates that the NPD reports. they dont touch digital downloads whatsoever and bundle games dont have their own sales figures
Still there are these figures from the world. Paint a more accurate picture though.Notice how you omitted them.
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The average Wii owner buys only 3.7 games a year, compared with 4.7 for Xbox 360 owners and 4.6 for PlayStation 3 owners, said a Wedbush Morgan analyst, Michael Pachter. “It reflects the broadening of the demographic,” he said. “Nintendo’s market doesn’t feel the same sense of urgency to buy every game that’s coming out.”
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nope. it's still a demo.
Still would rather pay $40 for this "demo" with more content than $60 for a racing game with less content.
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yeah, im paying because that's the console i have and i want to play online. they would obviously drop it to attract more customers. but to force them into that, the competition has to be competition. that means things like not haveing 4 different usernames to play Metal Gear Solid online or friend codes that you have to trade via email or phone.
I play Metal Gear Online with one user id. I also get dedicated servers and I don't have to pay for it. Also PSN hasn't had as many problems in dropping as XBL. Hmmm.
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microsoft is in the black on the 360 last i heard(i could be wrong and i dont care enough to look it up)
MS recently posted 2 profitably quarters since they put the $1 billion loss for RROD alone in the last quarter so they other quarters would look prettier. The 360 as a whole still is in the red and the gaming division as a whole has never been out of the red since the beginning of the original Xbox.
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i dont hate sony at all.. the ps2 was my favorite console for many years and it's still hooked up.. and i plan on buying a ps3 relatively soon.
i think its clear that the "1-10" rating scale is different than the "0-100" scale
in 1-10, 5 is average
but in 0-100, its more like your grades in school.. 70's are average(or mediocre.. one in the same to me)
and to clarify im not saying those games were flops as far as sales.. they all did quite well.. what im saying is that they were not "the" killer app.. and except for uncharted and ratchet, they were ALL billed as that.
i think its clear that the "1-10" rating scale is different than the "0-100" scale
in 1-10, 5 is average
but in 0-100, its more like your grades in school.. 70's are average(or mediocre.. one in the same to me)
and to clarify im not saying those games were flops as far as sales.. they all did quite well.. what im saying is that they were not "the" killer app.. and except for uncharted and ratchet, they were ALL billed as that.
Well then if Heavenly Sword falls under mediocre so does Blue Dragon. Heavenly Sword is a killer app just not a system selling app like Gears of War. The only one that was billed as a system selling app that flopped was Lair. There are plenty of gaming mags that were touting Uncharted as a reason to by a PS3. Also LOst Odessy and Blue Dragon were touted as killer apps that any JRPG would want.
Well then if Heavenly Sword falls under mediocre so does Blue Dragon.
correct. that doesn't exclude a game from being likable, however.
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Heavenly Sword is a killer app just not a system selling app like Gears of War.
i'm not sure how the two terms can differ. if it's a killer app, it's something that everyone wants.
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The only one that was billed as a system selling app that flopped was Lair.
and motorstorm. and yes, heavenly sword.
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There are plenty of gaming mags that were touting Uncharted as a reason to by a PS3.
yes, i understand this, but from a marketing angle , that was one of the few games you heard nothing about until it came out and got excellent reviews. it wasn't hyped up like the others.. so when i talk about the hyped up games failing to move consoles, i'm not talking about uncharted.
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Also LOst Odessy and Blue Dragon were touted as killer apps that any JRPG would want.
correct. and when they came out, they failed to live up to the hype.. just like these other games.
i'm not sure how the two terms can differ. if it's a killer app, it's something that everyone wants.
Well like Bioshock is a killer app but it doesn't move any systems like Gears did. Gears was a system seller, people bought a 360 for Gears to a lesser extent Halo 3. That doesn't mean Bioshock is not a killer app just not a system mover. People didn't run out to buy a 360 to play Bioshock while Gears and Halo 3 did.
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and motorstorm. and yes, heavenly sword.
Motorstorm sold over 3 million units. Heavenly Sword sold over a million. Not even close to being a flop.
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yes, i understand this, but from a marketing angle , that was one of the few games you heard nothing about until it came out and got excellent reviews. it wasn't hyped up like the others.. so when i talk about the hyped up games failing to move consoles, i'm not talking about uncharted.
It was hyped up. It had commercials, full page ads in magazines, Fanboys yelling about its graphics and then it met those expectations.
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correct. and when they came out, they failed to live up to the hype.. just like these other games.
Well they didn't even sell as many as Heavenly Sword, Motorstorm, Resistance, etc and Blue Dragon flopped in the US. Really only two games pushed 360's out of the doors and that was Gears of War with 4.4 million shipped in a month and then Halo 3 with a little over 500K shipped in a month. Others sold well but didn't move systems. So if a game sells over a million units how can it be a flop?
I'm not sure why you keep focusing on sales figures after i stated over and over im not calling these games flops in terms of sales.
Once again, what I'm saying is that sony has this long list of games that were supposed to be "the game" that would make you want a ps3, and every single one of them failed to REALLY wow anyone and sold primarily to previous owners, not new ones(with the exception of motorstorm, being that it was bundled).
I don't recall Uncharted or R&C being billed as that type of game, even though they both did turn out to be some of the best early examples of a universally praised game on the console.
Yeah but that is what I'm saying. The games aren't flops. They aren't system sellers either and that is not one and the same. HEavenly Sword is an awesome game that people bought PS3's for just not alot the same way Bioshock is an awesome game, and hype up as a system seller, that people bought 360's for just not alot.
360 only has one game on it that is the game really and that was Gears of War but if you really want to nitpick maybe Halo 3. All other games were cool and a lot were billed as the bringer of God himself (Halo 3) and just didn't really sell as many systems as they were hoping for. Halo 3 isn't a flop (in my opinion it was).
Ratchet was billed as Pixar graphics on a console machine. It was stated as this is a true next gen game with true next gen graphics. I could go on for days about the hype Ratchet got.
so now you show a demo for a game that isn't out and say it's out because the demo is. good marketing for sony, i guess.. if people fall for it.
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