First I have heard of this... So how does it change the direction of the flexing from moving from one side to the other? As long as they are facing the right direction you would think that the sidewalls would be flexed evenly by doing this? Just here to learn. Do you have a link to any research or an article I can check out? Discount failed to mention anything about this. I already had uneven tire wear from the track...
They are kept rotating in the right direction...
The only reason I have seen to do just front to back is because the tire tech was too lazy to un mount / mount them or the customer didn't want to pay for that service. everything I have researched follows what I previously posted.
Guess i'll find out at the next HPDE. If there was any time to get a 'random' blowout, it would be while pushing through the turns at 70+
Not if they are rotated in the "OLD SCHOOL" X pattern......truthfully B I have never heard of having to dismount tires from the rim to rotate them.....
front driver to rear driver
front passenger to rear passenger
Well yeah if you keep them rotating in the same direction (forward) then you're fine. Trust me you'd be suprised even with the tire stating right on it which direction to be rotating, people install them backwards, I've seen it many times before. Just go to the next car meet and I bet you'll find someone who's done it. Anyways yeah u just gotta keep them rotating same direction. Also I'd have to agree with the whole dismount and crossing thing not being necessary, unless you're doing all your driving on the Datona Speedway for a living and you have significantly more wear on one side lol but it shouldnt be that big of a difference. Straight front to back and back to front and you'll never go wrong with any drive vehicle.
Not if they are rotated in the "OLD SCHOOL" X pattern......truthfully B I have never heard of having to dismount tires from the rim to rotate them.....
front driver to rear driver
front passenger to rear passenger
The only reason they had to be dismounted was because in order to do the 'X' rotation and keep the tires moving in the right direction you have to dismount the tire and flip it around for the other side of the vehicle. You only have to do that to two of them...
Quote: Originally Posted by silfortytypex
Well yeah if you keep them rotating in the same direction (forward) then you're fine. Trust me you'd be suprised even with the tire stating right on it which direction to be rotating, people install them backwards, I've seen it many times before. Just go to the next car meet and I bet you'll find someone who's done it. Anyways yeah u just gotta keep them rotating same direction. Also I'd have to agree with the whole dismount and crossing thing not being necessary, unless you're doing all your driving on the Datona Speedway for a living and you have significantly more wear on one side lol but it shouldnt be that big of a difference. Straight front to back and back to front and you'll never go wrong with any drive vehicle.
I know exactly what you are talking about. Last time I saw Bald Dude down in Oregon he had tires facing opposite directions on each side (shops fault, not his). The reason I insisted (and paid) that mine be crossed over was because of the track days I have been running at PIR. The outer lip of the front two tires where wearing pretty good. Guess that's the price you have to pay when you are pow-woahin round the corners!
X rotations only happen on non-directional tires. On performance or directional tires you do not want to cross rotate (even mount and dissmount is a bad idea). The reasons are out there for you to find but doing a X rotate on a set of run flats would most likely ruin them (run flats are a mount and un-mount one time tire. They do not like being pulled off and on rims multiple time).
Lastly... B this is another occation where your lack of knowledge shines. You make a retarded statement like "You do know how to rotate tire, right?". I have been working on cars longer then you have been alive, I have rotated more sets of tires then you will in your intire life, I have more money invested in tools then you will in your first house. With all that said... you are a tool for taking a cheap shot at me with that statement.
Truth be told, I have seen tires dissmounted and remounted for a rotate. This was at the customers request only. You will not find a shop to rotate tires like this that are directional, no way. It would cost the shop way to much money and you have to worry about rim damage and tire beads tearing if they are a very low profile tire. The direction pattern is designed for a front to back rotate, not an X rotate. The X rotate could cause an unraveling effect on the bias or steel belts that could cause a blow out under speed due to the reverce forces and heat "seating" to come un-done. Thus putting every shop under speculation of carelessness (sp) or understanding the tire manufactures procedures. I guess I will take the knowledge of a tire monkey (iwannawhite) vs what you know. Real time under the hood or what you read on the internet.... we all know the internet is never wrong, so you choose who is right. Your opinions mean nothing because you have never worked on a car under a professional title nor had functions of a "car person". Stick with what you know, I will do the same.
90% of you guys don't even rotate your tires. I don't see what the big hubub is.
Thank you. I think the deal is B trying yet again to start shit or ????, I have no idea. It all comes down to me charging $12 for something that no ones does. So the ball rolls on and we move forward with the next "install day".
Thank you. I think the deal is B trying yet again to start shit or ????, I have no idea. It all comes down to me charging $12 for something that no ones does. So the ball rolls on and we move forward with the next "install day".
I am thinking about getting Jone's soda to make me a special soda... I am going to call it "PTP Hateraid". I am going to have them make it blue rassberry. Its only $12 additional for a 12 pack and you have to order up 4 cases at a time. I might do this...
X rotations only happen on non-directional tires. On performance or directional tires you do not want to cross rotate (even mount and dissmount is a bad idea). The reasons are out there for you to find but doing a X rotate on a set of run flats would most likely ruin them (run flats are a mount and un-mount one time tire. They do not like being pulled off and on rims multiple time).
Lastly... B this is another occation where your lack of knowledge shines. You make a retarded statement like "You do know how to rotate tire, right?". I have been working on cars longer then you have been alive, I have rotated more sets of tires then you will in your intire life, I have more money invested in tools then you will in your first house. With all that said... you are a tool for taking a cheap shot at me with that statement.
Truth be told, I have seen tires dissmounted and remounted for a rotate. This was at the customers request only. You will not find a shop to rotate tires like this that are directional, no way. It would cost the shop way to much money and you have to worry about rim damage and tire beads tearing if they are a very low profile tire. The direction pattern is designed for a front to back rotate, not an X rotate. The X rotate could cause an unraveling effect on the bias or steel belts that could cause a blow out under speed due to the reverce forces and heat "seating" to come un-done. Thus putting every shop under speculation of carelessness (sp) or understanding the tire manufactures procedures. I guess I will take the knowledge of a tire monkey (iwannawhite) vs what you know. Real time under the hood or what you read on the internet.... we all know the internet is never wrong, so you choose who is right. Your opinions mean nothing because you have never worked on a car under a professional title nor had functions of a "car person". Stick with what you know, I will do the same.
Wasn't a cheap shot, nor was it me trying to start shit. if I wanted to start shit, everyone would be well aware for there are much more effective ways of doing so. As for rotating a directional tire in an 'X' fashion, I will have to call BS on the tire coming apart because of it until proven otherwise. The other 'tire monkey' seemed to have come to the same conclusion I have. As long as you do it right and it is necessary (track use), there is no reported harm. You can type any speculative scenario you want. However, the manufacturers themselves have yet to publish such information. Prove me wrong and I shall be humbled, just don't come in here acting like King of the World because you are older and have been wrenching for a while. I'll be the first to admit you have more experience in the auto field than I do, but that doesn't mean I am oblivious or that you know it all. We ('tire monkey' and I) were having a pretty good discussion until you decided to swing your dick through the window and start throwing insults...
Quote: Originally Posted by ptperformance
Thank you. I think the deal is B trying yet again to start shit or ????, I have no idea. It all comes down to me charging $12 for something that no ones does. So the ball rolls on and we move forward with the next "install day".
No shit as mentioned above. Stick to your ball rolling...
Quote: Originally Posted by silfortytypex
Good Idea, how about "Haterade Code Frog?"
I heard its pretty good haven't got around to trying it though.
Why does everyone bring up Frog? He's not in any of the discussions on here?
Wasn't a cheap shot, nor was it me trying to start shit. if I wanted to start shit, everyone would be well aware for there are much more effective ways of doing so. As for rotating a directional tire in an 'X' fashion, I will have to call BS on the tire coming apart because of it until proven otherwise. The other 'tire monkey' seemed to have come to the same conclusion I have. As long as you do it right and it is necessary (track use), there is no reported harm. You can type any speculative scenario you want. However, the manufacturers themselves have yet to publish such information. Prove me wrong and I shall be humbled, just don't come in here acting like King of the World because you are older and have been wrenching for a while. I'll be the first to admit you have more experience in the auto field than I do, but that doesn't mean I am oblivious or that you know it all. We ('tire monkey' and I) were having a pretty good discussion until you decided to swing your dick through the window and start throwing insults...
No shit as mentioned above. Stick to your ball rolling...
Why does everyone bring up Frog? He's not in any of the discussions on here?
P.S. I'd buy a case
I wouldn't sell one to you.
If its such a good idea to do rotations like this... please direct me to the place that does it with out asking.
Firestone tires, enough said there.
Now on to the big one... starting shit.
B you know damn well that you will never show up to one of my install days. 2 reasons, you will be asked to leave and you don't like PTP. Now before you get all butt hurt and say that you do like us..... please show me all the posts of your supporting PTP and the such. You know as well as I that those don't exsist. You never has possitive posts or supportive posts of PTP or myself. You don't ask questions like when or where you question my skills or my ethics of what I do. You challenge or debate with me all the time, with no other course other then to get at me. It has been a long time since it has worked and I have no intention of your petty words getting to me. You know your starting shit, other people can see you starting shit, I can see your starting shit, ect ect. I call it by its name... if it looks like shit, smells like shit, feels like shit, how about we call it what it is..... shit.
You have an entertaining job of sitting on the internet and doing pretty much nothing all the time. Your debate skills suck and you try to provoke me into them when all you have to offer is speculation and assumptions. We here would like to see factual data. We all know I am an ass, we all know that FYC racing hates PTP, we all know that you and I have been around and around, can the list be any longer?
B, move on to your next hobby. The table's have flipped and your getting people looking at your post's as starting shit. You have done nothing in this thread to "help" anyone. This was my thread and you had to come in here and start what looks, feels, and smells pretty much like shit. Again calling it what it is.
I will be making another thread on this but leaving this one open so I don't get flammed by the "others" for locking a thread but making one last "comment"/post.
If its such a good idea to do rotations like this... please direct me to the place that does it with out asking.
Firestone tires, enough said there.
Now on to the big one... starting shit.
B you know damn well that you will never show up to one of my install days. 2 reasons, you will be asked to leave and you don't like PTP. Now before you get all butt hurt and say that you do like us..... please show me all the posts of your supporting PTP and the such. You know as well as I that those don't exsist. You never has possitive posts or supportive posts of PTP or myself. You don't ask questions like when or where you question my skills or my ethics of what I do. You challenge or debate with me all the time, with no other course other then to get at me. It has been a long time since it has worked and I have no intention of your petty words getting to me. You know your starting shit, other people can see you starting shit, I can see your starting shit, ect ect. I call it by its name... if it looks like shit, smells like shit, feels like shit, how about we call it what it is..... shit.
You have an entertaining job of sitting on the internet and doing pretty much nothing all the time. Your debate skills suck and you try to provoke me into them when all you have to offer is speculation and assumptions. We here would like to see factual data. We all know I am an ass, we all know that FYC racing hates PTP, we all know that you and I have been around and around, can the list be any longer?
B, move on to your next hobby. The table's have flipped and your getting people looking at your post's as starting shit. You have done nothing in this thread to "help" anyone. This was my thread and you had to come in here and start what looks, feels, and smells pretty much like shit. Again calling it what it is.
I will be making another thread on this but leaving this one open so I don't get flammed by the "others" for locking a thread but making one last "comment"/post.
Point me to a place that normally deals with cars that see the track. I had to ask that they do it this way, and also had to pay. You are right, your normal free tire rotation would not be done this way, which is topic of my first post in this thread. It needed to be done on my car, so I had them do it.
What about Firestone?
I wouldn't show up to one of your installs because A) I can do it myself, B) I have a blast having get togethers at Frog's, And C) the same reason you didn't show up to HPDE.
You are right that I never supported you. I did buy some stuff from you a ways back, and I have praised the Race Direct Fit FMIC, and I've actually sent people your way for parts and work. Not my fault you never got around to taking care of them...
And damn straight I challenge you. You make parts for my car and my community. If we didn't challenge or debate products we would all be rockin ebay parts. It's just another level of capitalism and a benefit to having a free market economy.
What factual data would you like to see John? I thought I was providing that in our discussion on tire rotation... Which, I might add is relevant to 'your' thread. And I know the discussion helped me. Maybe I'm the only one?
Do you just not like to be questioned? I mean, you always seem to have 'The' definitive answer... I don't write off any answers I recieve from you, I just like to verify their validity, because as you in a previous post above everything on the internet must be true... Pretty sure everyone double checks their sources and then also gets a second opinion on this forum...
I will do you the respect of not posting in your other thread since you have such a problem with me that we can't engage in a simple debate.
Point me to a place that normally deals with cars that see the track. I had to ask that they do it this way, and also had to pay. You are right, your normal free tire rotation would not be done this way, which is topic of my first post in this thread. It needed to be done on my car, so I had them do it.
At what point and time did I state I worked on "track cars". Again you made an assumption. I don't do "track only cars" nor do I ever plan on it. So your assumption that I work on or build "track cars" was way off topic and wrong. Your post did not state anything about "track cars". Here it is if you forgot
Quote: Originally Posted by Plan B
No kidding! Our's are directional so they have to be unmounted and mounted to do it right!
So I guess you assumed that I should know your car is a track only application? You never even stated that but I was suppose to know that your application was track only? Yeaaaa right. Its a nice try B, but its full of fail and your debate was very poorly executed.
What about Firestone?
Do some research, lots of failures from cross rotations. Again this is what you learn when you work on cars vs reading about them. Again, experience wins this debate vs internet reading.
I wouldn't show up to one of your installs because A) I can do it myself, B) I have a blast having get togethers at Frog's, And C) the same reason you didn't show up to HPDE.
Validation of my claims.... FYC/Frog's is my problem on this site. I didn't show up to HPDE for personal reasons, if it was FYC there is not one issue I can not handle face to face with that crew and I have proven that in the past.
You are right that I never supported you. I did buy some stuff from you a ways back, and I have praised the Race Direct Fit FMIC, and I've actually sent people your way for parts and work. Not my fault you never got around to taking care of them...
Thanks you for sending them to me. Validation of my claims yet again on the support issue. Your here to start shit with me and only me. Show me all the posts you have questioned another vendor, show me all the posts where you have debated with another vendor on this site. They don't exsist, I have looked in your post history and pretty much looks like I am the only one you "debate with" (looks more like shit to me but for now I will try to stay on topic).
And damn straight I challenge you. You make parts for my car and my community. If we didn't challenge or debate products we would all be rockin ebay parts. It's just another level of capitalism and a benefit to having a free market economy.
Again, I seem to be the only one you challenge. There is a point when debating become's harrassment. You debate everything I post about. You challenge my experience consistantly and you have what to support it??? The internet? We all know your car experience or the lack of it and you think its logical to challenge me and only me? There are another 50 vendors on this site you could challenge there products on but you don't, why? Because I am local? I guess it comes down to this, we have the fastest times locally and the most WHP from cars that we either own or work on. That has to say something for what we are doing and we are doing it correctly. Debate all you want, we know what we are doing and we are doing it right (I highly doubt that you would even know the difference if we were doing it wrong). I guess if someone is going to challenge me.... they should at least know as much or more about cars then myself.
What factual data would you like to see John? I thought I was providing that in our discussion on tire rotation... Which, I might add is relevant to 'your' thread. And I know the discussion helped me. Maybe I'm the only one?
Well I guess if the facts elude you... so be it. The facts are:
This was my thread about an install day and you pissed all over it with shit talk.
No one does tire rotates that way, not the dealers not the tire shops no one (unless its asked for by the customer). For $12 what were you expecting? You were starting shit in my thread, simple.
You constantly do this, come into my threads and debate me.
Your part of the FYC crew.
You have stated your are not a supporter of my products or shop but you keep coming into my threads for what reasons again? Yea, to start shit.
Do you just not like to be questioned? I mean, you always seem to have 'The' definitive answer... I don't write off any answers I recieve from you, I just like to verify their validity, because as you in a previous post above everything on the internet must be true... Pretty sure everyone double checks their sources and then also gets a second opinion on this forum...
I like to be questioned, but I am looking for reasonalbe questions. Things that you know I can do or I have the tools to do the work with. Nothing is "definitive" no matter who you are. Things and procedures change for the automotive world all the time. You don't verify any validity, you question my work long before you have verified anything. You make assumptions of how the work is going to be performed (see your sencond post in this thread assuming that I knew you had a track car and would want a cross rotate). There is nothing that you even want done from me (see quote in this thread stating as much and others where you have stated that you don't support or want anything from me or PTP). So I have to ask why again.... do you post in my thread if nothing else to start shit. You don't support PTP, you don't buy products from us, you don't want me to be around the FYC crew, ect ect. Are you trying to save everyone from the big bad PTP locally? Again, we have the fastest care locally and the most WHP. That says we know what we are doing, like it or not that is the proof of what we do.
I will do you the respect of not posting in your other thread since you have such a problem with me that we can't engage in a simple debate.
B, there is debate and there is harrassment. You are not debating anything, you are challenging me at every post. You know far less then me when it comes to cars, your efforts to make me look bad are just speculation and assumptions of the way "you" want things done. You are not clear and jump to assumptions of how we are, or are not going to do something. You act as if you know better but really don't know standard procedures for shit. I will engauge in simple debate with you, no problems. I will not take the consistant assumptions and manipulation of words anymore. I will quote what you have stated in earlier posts for now on just to clairify what you have stated, vs what you are debating from know on. I will make sure I have a clear idea of what you are trying to "claim" before we move forward with any debate from know on.
The main problem with this is this, you stated that we need to cross rotate the tires. You know danm good and well that we don't have the equipment to do this (this is where the shit starting took off). I know that frog doesn't have the equipment to do this as well. So, unless you wanted to get that done and only that, you were going to have to go somewhere else. Yet you continued to move forward with your debate. No, we will not cross rotate your tires. One, I am not comfortable with cross rotations on direction tires. Two (and you knew this coming into your so called debate), we don't have the equipment to mount and dissmount tires.
So with all this said, your posts of "debate and "validity" of what I am saying was moot. You knew we did have the equipment to do what you were asking of us and 99% of most shops will not cross rotated because of the time involved or don't have the equipment to do such work. Yet you continuted to post and debate what I was saying an "install day" thread. No one is twisting your arm to show up nor to pay for something you need. Its an install day where people either want to get it done or want to get some BBQ'ed food. Its a get together to talk cars and get some work done if you want it. It's a load of fail for your assumptions, debate and validity. Either you want to show up and get food and talk with what ever done to your car, or you don't. We all know that you will never show up so, why debate something you will never end up doing. Only reason I can see to do such a thing..... to start shit.
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