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Old 10-28-2007, 09:05 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default 50 trim + Greddy Profec B, need a little assistance.

My mods are listed in my sig if anyone needs to check them out. I am wanting to spike 21-22 and hold 20psi. My Set is at 85%, my Gain is at 85%, and my set gain is at 7. I know my set gain needs to go up, but not sure how much, maybe 120??

Now how the car acts. In a 3rd gear pull from 3K it boost 14 psi (14 pund spring) and it slowly creeps to 20psi by red line. I would like for it to spike 21-22 and hold 20 at redline.

I am also in the mid 10's afr at redline, then in 4th around 4-5K it jumps to 12.7 and idea on how to fix that aswell? I am pulling 20% from the safc.

My fuel pressure is at 30 and is 1:1 if that matters. I dont really need to be going past 100MPH on the street anyways so right now I am just wanting to get the boost how I want, all help is appreciated though.

-Jeramey-
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Old 10-29-2007, 12:56 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Quote: Originally Posted by TurboSrt_4_Jeramey
My mods are listed in my sig if anyone needs to check them out. I am wanting to spike 21-22 and hold 20psi. My Set is at 85%, my Gain is at 85%, and my set gain is at 7. I know my set gain needs to go up, but not sure how much, maybe 120??

Now how the car acts. In a 3rd gear pull from 3K it boost 14 psi (14 pund spring) and it slowly creeps to 20psi by red line. I would like for it to spike 21-22 and hold 20 at redline.

I am also in the mid 10's afr at redline, then in 4th around 4-5K it jumps to 12.7 and idea on how to fix that aswell? I am pulling 20% from the safc.

My fuel pressure is at 30 and is 1:1 if that matters. I dont really need to be going past 100MPH on the street anyways so right now I am just wanting to get the boost how I want, all help is appreciated though.

-Jeramey-

how do u have your vac lines for the turbo, wastgate, and EBC
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Old 10-29-2007, 01:48 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote: Originally Posted by raverboy
Quote: Originally Posted by TurboSrt_4_Jeramey
My mods are listed in my sig if anyone needs to check them out. I am wanting to spike 21-22 and hold 20psi. My Set is at 85%, my Gain is at 85%, and my set gain is at 7. I know my set gain needs to go up, but not sure how much, maybe 120??

Now how the car acts. In a 3rd gear pull from 3K it boost 14 psi (14 pund spring) and it slowly creeps to 20psi by red line. I would like for it to spike 21-22 and hold 20 at redline.

I am also in the mid 10's afr at redline, then in 4th around 4-5K it jumps to 12.7 and idea on how to fix that aswell? I am pulling 20% from the safc.

My fuel pressure is at 30 and is 1:1 if that matters. I dont really need to be going past 100MPH on the street anyways so right now I am just wanting to get the boost how I want, all help is appreciated though.

-Jeramey-

how do u have your vac lines for the turbo, wastgate, and EBC

It is set up the way Greddy said it to. I am not sure if you are wanting to know where a certain line goes or not. I have checked the line about 4 times.

I make my pulls starting at 3K so maybe its just 50trim lag why is goes to 15 immediatly and climbs to 20psi, I am not sure.

I now have my gain at 9%, Set Gain at 85%, and set gain at 74%. Thats what I hear on average gets you 19psi. If you compare that to my first settings in the first post it is quite different, but the car acts about the same.

What do you think? Thanks, for the help as well.
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Old 10-30-2007, 01:41 PM   #4 (permalink)
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put the set boost and set gain closer together,like 85-80, if you want it to spike (don't know why you would want a 50 trim to spike) set the gain lower, start going down 1% at a time from the 9% your at, untill you get the spike you want.
also check what you have the safety boost set at. and how many % you have it set to pull if you hit the over boost limit. best to turn that stuff off untill you get the rest set up how you want it.

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Old 10-30-2007, 01:54 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote: Originally Posted by camlifter
put the set boost and set gain closer together,like 85-80, if you want it to spike (don't know why you would want a 50 trim to spike) set the gain lower, start going down 1% at a time from the 9% your at, untill you get the spike you want.
also check what you have the safety boost set at. and how many % you have it set to pull if you hit the over boost limit. best to turn that stuff off untill you get the rest set up how you want it.

Thanks for the post also. Yeah I dont know why a said spike. I just want it to be were when I floor it, it boost 20-21 and hold it untile redline. I will put the set boost and set gain closer together and lower the gain some and see how it performs. I just thought it was odd to go directly to 14psi (which is WGA) and then climb to 20psi.
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Old 10-30-2007, 02:31 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I'm running about 25 psi
set 70%
gain 17%
set gain 21psi
warning 31psi
limiter 15%

with this setup.

If you are running the profec B spec II EBC then your line setup will be as follows:

On the solenoid - make sure that you have "nipples" coming out of COM & NC port. Also make sure those are in tight - as any leaks would screw everything up. Then, run a line from the compressor side of the turbo to the bottom part of the wastegate. Give yourself some slack. Best place that I've found for this hose if if you give it some decent slack & then run it to the front towards the engine cover, zip tie it to your distributor cap on the engine, & then have it going to the bottom part of the wastegate. This way it won't be exposed to as much head as it would if it were in between the turbo & the firewall.....
So, so far we run a line from the compressor side of the turbo to the bottom of the wastegate. Then, find a place where you will be mounting your solenoid. With just a bit bending you will be able to place it nicely on the driver side & closer to the firewall bolt that is holding down the battery tray. Don't put it in yet, as it will be a lot easier to run lines to it while it is out. Now, you can measure how much line you need to go from the TOP of the wastegate to the COM port. Run that line & hook everything up. Then find a good place to "T"-into the first line that we run & put a plastic T in it. & from that nipple run a line over to the NC port on your solenoid.
Recap - Compressor to bottom of the wastegate - also T into this line & take it to NC port. Then run a line from COM to the TOP of the wastegate. & you're all done. Also, I figured out the way that the wastegate & EBC operate so it all makes sense. Probably will to you as well.
Wastegate is being closed shut by the spring inside of it. You run a line from the turbo compressor to the bottom of the wastegate. As the turbo builds pressure so will the pressure on the underside of the wastegate increase. This will push up on the spring & open up the wastegate. Now, it is obvious that any leaks in this line would result in no pressure buildup on the bottom of the wastegate so it would never open. Causing your boost to keep rising.... So, - when you T into this line it goes to the NC port (Normally Closed). So, no leaks would develop. Now, top of the wastegate is open to atmosphere. BUT - with profec - when the solenoid activates - it will open the port from NC to the COM (com goes to NC & NO - & when one is open the other is closed). SO, what is going on now is that you're sending pressure from the turbo to the upper part of the wastegate as well & this will press down together with the spring to keep the wastegate shut. So, boost keeps rising. Once decided boost is achieved - the solenoid will start closing a bit - shutting off the pressure going to the top part of the wastegate & causing the wastegate to start opening. Also, every time you're sending pressure to the upper part of the wastegate - you're also decreasing pressure to the bottom part of it. & vice versa. So, now that you understand this as well - it will be no brainer setting it up.

this is just some info for better understanding

SET This is how you set the boost pressure. Rather than setting it in psi or kPa, the Greddy unit allows you to adjust it as a percentage value, from 0% (greddy unit essentially turned off) to 100% (greddy unit will set the boost as high as it can). This setup demands a certain amount of trial-and-error to properly configure it since you have to make adjustments, then drive under WOT (Wide Open Throttle) and see what the maximum boost pressure achieved was throughout the entire RPM range. SET SHOULD BE SET TO A CONSERVATIVE VALUE WHEN BEGINNING TO TUNE YOUR GREDDY UNIT. 30% SEEMS TO BE A CONSERVATIVE SETTING BASED ON MY TESTING AND BASED ON OTHER REPORTED NUMBERS FROM EVO OWNERS AND TAKING INTO CONSIDERATION THE LINK BETWEEN SET AND GAIN (see GAIN below).

GAIN is defined in the manual as the value to adjust the "boost consistency". You don't really need to know exactly what that means. You should set GAIN to 0 when beginning, and you will then test the car under WOT while paying attention to the boost pressure. If the boost goes up and then falls off at higher RPM, you will want to increase the GAIN by a conservative amount (5% should be relatively conservative to begin with, then when you want to fine-tune it, you can go down to intervals of 1%). When you increase the GAIN value, the corresponding boost that you will go up to will be higher even if you leave the SET value alone. GAIN SHOULD BE SET TO 0 WHEN BEGINNING TO TUNE YOUR GREDDY UNIT.

START BOOST (also known as SET GAIN because that is what is displayed on the unit when adjusting this setting) is the lowest boost that the Greddy unit will begin increasing the boost from under WOT. You want this to be as close to the SET value as possible, since you want to keep as close to your desired boost as possible. However, setting it too close to the SET value will cause the boost to spike. You should set this to a conservative setting when beginning to tune your Greddy unit. Then you can fine-tune it later to get it as close to the SET value as possible without causing the boost to spike. Fortunately, you can set this in psi or kPa, thankfully Greddy didn't decide to let this be adjustable in % like the SET value. START BOOST SHOULD BE SET TO YOUR DESIRED BOOST PRESSURE MINUS 4 PSI (about 28 kPa).

WARNING is the maximum boost that you do not want to exceed. Fortunately, you can also set this in psi or kPa like the START BOOST value. When the boost exceeds the WARNING level, it will kick in the LIMITER, which decreases the boost a certain amount that you can set. WARNING SHOULD BE SET TO YOUR DESIRED BOOST PRESSURE PLUS 1 PSI (about 7 kPa).

LIMITER is the boost percentage that the Greddy unit will lower to when the WARNING boost pressure is hit. LIMITER SHOULD BE SET TO YOUR SET VALUE MINUS 4%.

PEAK is the peak boost value that the unit has seen since the last time it was cleared. To clear it, go to the peak boost display, and hold down the set knob until the unit beeps and "---" is displayed. IT IS A GOOD IDEA TO CLEAR THIS BEFORE YOU BEGIN JUST IN CASE YOUR UNIT HAS A HIGH BOOST ALREADY RECORDED.

LAST BOOST shows you the last boost that was recorded every time the accelerator is released for 3 seconds. TURN LAST BOOST ON BECAUSE IT IS A GOOD DIAGNOSTIC TOOL WHEN TUNING YOUR UNIT.

Keep in mind that when displaying in kPa, it does not show it technically in kPa, but rather misleadingly in bars, which Greddy inconveniently tries to justify by sticking x100 kPa next to the display. Therefore, 100 kPa will be displayed as 1.00 x100 kPa. Psi will also unfortunately be displayed in psi x10 so that 19 psi will show as 190, adding to the confusion.

Another very important thing to keep in mind is that when you first power on your car or the Greddy unit, WARNING will be set to 14.5 psi (100kPa, or 1 bar) until you interact with the Greddy unit by pressing any button. This "feature" is not documented in the manual.

Also keep in mind that atmospheric conditions affect the operation of your boost controller. When it is hot, you will get different results than when it is cold. One possible way of solving this issue is tuning your Greddy unit under the "Lo" mode for when it is relatively cold, and under the "High" mode for when it is relatively hot. Unfortunately, two modes are hardly enough for somebody that needs to account for very different summer and winter climates, and also for more aggressive settings for when increased performance is desired.

The maximum boost that you will see is also not consistent throughout the gears, which adds even more to the confusion. Unfortunately, if you've already increased your start boost to the maximum setting that doesn't give you surging, then there seems to be no way to get around this variance in boost pressure from low to high gears. I don't know if this is a limitation of the greddy unit specifically, or if it's something inherent to electronic boost controllers in general. The only two things that you can do to compensate is the following:

1. Set it to the "safest" of the settings that does not trip your limiter. To do this, tune the unit to your desired boost pressure in fifth gear.

2. Tune the "Lo" and "Hi" settings corresponding to having the boost maximized during the low gears and during the high gears. This would require you to manually hit the button to switch to the "Hi" setting when you shift to third gear or whatever you started tuning your "Hi" setting at. This is why Greddy makes the wireless remote switch that straps to your steering wheel to switch between "Hi" and "Lo" settings.

The following steps should be taken in exactly this order, taking into consideration all of the previous information:
1. Change boost pressure units to psi if so desired (see manual).
2. Set WARNING to your desired boost pressure plus 1 psi (about 7 kPa) (see above).
3. Set START BOOST (SET GAIN) to your desired boost pressure minus 4 psi (about 28 kPa)(see above).
4. Clear PEAK boost value (see above).
5. Set LAST BOOST to ON (see above).
6. Set GAIN to 0 (see above).
7. Set SET to 30% (see above).
8. Set LIMITER to SET minus 4% (26% if you followed #7).
9. Test for boost falloff at high rpm. You should probably do this in a wide open area with no other cars nearby and preferably no cops. It is also good to have somebody in the car with you that can watch the gauge while you concentrate on not wrecking your car. If there is no boost falloff, then go to #10. If there is boost falloff, then increase the GAIN by 5% and test again. Keep in mind that when you increase the GAIN value, the corresponding boost that you will go up to will be higher even if you leave the SET value alone. Repeat until the boost pressure does not decrease, or until you feel surging. If you feel surging and the boost pressure still decreases (not sure if this is possible) then decrease to the last level that you did not feel surging at.
10. Increase SET by 2% and adjust LIMITER accordingly, then test again. Keep increasing by 2% until desired boost level is obtained.
11. Increase START BOOST (SET GAIN) by 1 increment and test until surging is felt or the WARNING level is hit and the display turns red, then decrease to the previous setting.

hope that helps
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Old 10-30-2007, 03:22 PM   #7 (permalink)
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You didnt have to go all out like that, but thanks for the time you took and the post.
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Old 10-31-2007, 11:14 AM   #8 (permalink)
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make sure your vac lines are set up the way it says in ravers post, you want to be using both top and bottom ports of the w/g. it's also normal for the boost to jump right to the psi setting of the w/g spring and then take 400 or so rpm to build to full boost, welcome to the land of 50 trim lag.
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Old 10-31-2007, 12:16 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote: Originally Posted by TurboSrt_4_Jeramey
You didnt have to go all out like that, but thanks for the time you took and the post.



better to know to much than to little
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Old 10-31-2007, 12:47 PM   #10 (permalink)
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^^^ True
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Old 10-31-2007, 03:00 PM   #11 (permalink)
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im runing 21 lbs my set is 62% my gain is 58% my set gain is 20%. hope that helps 85 sounds way to high
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Old 10-31-2007, 03:11 PM   #12 (permalink)
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When you are in 3rd gread at exactly 3K, and floor it WOT, does you boost go to 15psi immediately and then climb to 21? If not how does you car act, I know not all are the same I am just wondering. Maybe Its just 50trim lag thats new to me. I am doing pulls at 3K which is kinda low I guess.
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Old 10-31-2007, 03:13 PM   #13 (permalink)
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BIgJonXCon....why is your gain so high, I thought needed to be very low and your set gain needed to be high?
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Old 10-31-2007, 03:30 PM   #14 (permalink)
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ummm... i dont rember y i set it like that. its been that way for like a year now.
in the owerns manual it says
if the start boost (set gain)value is closer to the set boost value, the turbo will spool faster.
if its too close it will cause it to spike

i dont have any spiking so i guess its good

http://www.greddy.com/img/PHP/products/pdf/682.pdf

go to page 18
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Old 11-03-2007, 02:04 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote: Originally Posted by BigJohnXcon
im runing 21 lbs my set is 62% my gain is 58% my set gain is 20%. hope that helps 85 sounds way to high

I was reading this thread and wondering how the hell everyone was setting everything so high. Then I relized I have the spec 2 must be a little diff as far as sensitivity.

Gain (max setting on the spec 2 is 35%)
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