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Old 03-19-2008, 09:12 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default So you're thinking of getting SCT...

Hey, Sour Kraut can you sticky this when you get a chance?

I am trying to compose a frequently asked questions thread cause we are getting allot of the same questions recently. To regulars, please post anything I have missed, or you think this thread should contain.

So you're thinking of getting SCT and you have questions.

What is SCT?
SCT is an engine management system built on the factory hardware. Instead of employing a separate processor, and often sensors, as a piggyback or stand alone; SCT uses the stock PCM and sensors at its foundation.

How does it work?
SCT employs the use of a small handheld device called the Xcal II. The Xcal is plugged into the factory OBDII port located under the dashboard on the drivers side of the cabin. Via this port the Xcal can interface with the PCM and effectively erase and overwrite the factory computer program.

What can it change?
Well, in a word anything. Anything the factory computer does, you can change, that means calibrating different sensors, changing the fuel map, timing, almost any table that the factory PCM uses can be altered for good or bad. I mention that because just because you have the ability to change something does not mean it should be altered. In fact the majority of the PCM functions SHOULD NOT be altered. Only a select few tables are actually needed to actually tune the car. The Xcal can also read and clear OBDII codes. Because you have complete control over every aspect of the PCM you can turn OFF certain functions such as the rear O2 sensor to prevent a code. You also can control the engine environment like when the radiator fans turn on and off, or at what load the A/C compressor turns itself off.

What is the Xcal II?
The Xcal II is nothing more than a handheld "tune bank" it has three banks that can store three totally different tunes. For example you could have one bank with a tune for 93 octane fuel, and another with a tune for race gas.

Does the Xcal tune the car?
No, the Xcal is only a tool that is used to put information into the PCM, it cannot change any settings without the aid of the Advantage III software and a computer.

What is Advantage III?
Advantage III is the software portion of the tuning system. It is installed on a computer and is the user interface to make changes to the program/tune. You open the PCM code you are tuning with (or and MTF file which is a saved SCT tune) you then make the changes you want to make. Then you hook up the Xcal II to the computer via a USB cable and tell the Advantage III to move the program into one of three banks of the Xcal II. The Xcal is then unhooked from the computer and plugged into the OBDII port of the car and you go through a series of key on key off's to initiate the reprogramming of the cars PCM.

What does it look like?



You keep mentioning "tables" or "Maps" what are they?
A OBDII, or any other for that matter, automotive computer is nothing more than a collection of "Maps" that look like Excel spreadsheets with values entered into them. They have an X axis and a Y axis (the up, and across). These "Axis" values correspond to something, it could be alot of things depending on what table we are talking about. All the "values" in the table reflect something as well, often sensor feedback. When you tune with a reflash device you are physically altering what the computer is doing, or how it interprets various sensor input.

Can anyone use SCT?
Thats a tough question. Technically yes, anyone is capable of using SCT, however without some basic understanding about how modern automotive computers work it would be extremely difficult. The fundamental problem is that you have to know what the tables do in order to 1) select the correct table and 2) Alter it in a way that would have the desired effect.

How many different tables are there?
I don't even know, that's how many.

What about the "canned tunes" or "Pretunes"?
Yes, they are SCT tunes, however they are NOT the same as an SCT custom tune. They are mild base tunes that are similar to using a piggyback. Traditionally they are intended to be a safe alternative to getting a full dyno tune. The drawback is that in order to ensure safety they have to be tuned very rich and include very gentle timing curves. Every car is different and in order to be safe they must err on the side of caution, therefore they cannot provide the power that a custom tune wold offer.

Should i get SCT if I'm not going to a big turbo?
Yes, if you want to really tune the car.

Should I get SCT if I AM going to a big turbo?
Yes

Can I use SCT with my piggyback
I suppose you could but you would not want to.

Will my car make more power with SCT than a piggyback?
Yes

Will my car make more power with SCT than a stand alone?
Maybe, it will certainly run better.

Will my car run better with SCT?
Yes Yes Yes Yes, a resounding YES. Basically your car will be "as smart as stock" and therefore run as good as stock, provided your tuner knows HOW to make it run like stock. The factory PCM has tables that reference barometric pressure (altitude) ambient temperature and others that modify the tune to account for these environmental changes. Your car will in essence BE stock but with performance parts.

How much more power will it make?
This is limited to the ability of your tuner.

I have a friend on the internet that said his car runs terribly with SCT
His car does not run terribly with SCT, it runs terribly on the tune that he put in. SCT is only as good as the person who is tuning with it is. Garbage in Garbage out, SCT is not anywhere near as forgiving as a piggyback in respect to tuning. You can make ONE change of ONE value on the wrong table and the car will not only run like shit, but could possibly destroy itself.

You are scaring me away from SCT it sounds too hard to use.
I am trying to get people to understand the power that SCT gives you. YOU are in control of EVERYTHING the PCM does. You are essentially Dodge motor company, whatever you tell it to do, it will attempt to execute. There is no reason to be afraid of SCT, it can be learned and if the proper amount of caution is used as safe as any PCM flash device can be. As long as you don't start altering tables that you don't at least have an idea of what they do, and ask questions you are completely capable of tuning your own car.

Who should I go to get help with SCT
That is up to you, I don't endorse any shop other than the one I am affiliated with, if your on the east coast feel free to contact me. You will find that there are not ANY shops that are willing to hold your hand through tuning your own car for free, or will give out secrets about what tables do, if you find one, let me know and I will certainly put their name here. This forum is likely the best place to get free help.


In conclusion, SCT is the best tuning platform available for the SRT-4 nothing else comes close. However, the tune is only as good as the tuner if you know that going in, and you're willing to learn, there are many people on this forum that are more than willing to help you learn your way around. It's an investment, not just financially, but mentally, but it more than pays for itself in the first few months when you get to drive a car that runs like stock, but accelerates like a big turbo SRT4.




I know I missed a million things, put your edits in the thread and I'll add them as we go.
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Last edited by ojcool : 03-20-2008 at 01:17 PM.
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Old 03-19-2008, 09:32 PM   #2 (permalink)
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All the companies are talking about pretuned maps, I give them my mods they send me a map. Awsome.

They will send me a realatively safe tune, A/F, timing, fuel wise.
Awsome.

However, since I have the handheld thing, can I plug it in a modify a, for example, Agp pretuned map?? To make it more agressive? Or just so I dont have to keep emailing things and worrying wheather or not agp tuners are available?
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Old 03-19-2008, 09:36 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote: Originally Posted by $PK$ View Post
All the companies are talking about pretuned maps, I give them my mods they send me a map. Awsome.

They will send me a realatively safe tune, A/F, timing, fuel wise.
Awsome.

However, since I have the handheld thing, can I plug it in a modify a, for example, Agp pretuned map?? To make it more agressive? Or just so I dont have to keep emailing things and worrying wheather or not agp tuners are available?

xcal - just the flasher so you can upload flashes
PRP - the above + utilize the full software to make changes.

AGP:
no you cannot modify their tunes in any way or shape or form. nor can you view them.


Pwerks:
if you run the xcal from them and upgrade to the prp later, you can use their maps.


the PRP software isnt for the faint-hearted. i got a 10minute tutorial and is VERY complicating, and isnt recommended for teh nubbies.

the PRP makes the AEM EMS look like a childrens book.
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Old 03-19-2008, 09:42 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Drastic, your all over these sct threads, thanks for clearing that up for me, Im going to cruise up to Jannetty Racing and discuss with them since I live pretty close.
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Old 03-19-2008, 09:46 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote: Originally Posted by $PK$ View Post
Drastic, your all over these sct threads, thanks for clearing that up for me, Im going to cruise up to Jannetty Racing and discuss with them since I live pretty close.


im mainly only in the SCT and cali section. and refresh like no otha'!

im just another SCT enthusiast here getting the xcal soon, and will be upgrading to the PRP in 1-2months (cant afford to go PRP at this instant, and i need some type of fuel control. no fuel control w/ 750s and crower 272s = ).

well, if you got janetty near by to help, you're lucky.

i plan on getting a well rounded tune sent from pwerks then tackling it myself w/ the PRP...with the help of mana4real

its pretty IN-Depth software, and is A LOT more confusing than i thought itd be (when compared to the easier to use AEM).
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Old 03-19-2008, 09:53 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Well good luck with learning on how to tune the PRP. With the SCT seeming to be getting extremely popular, it would be awsome for someone like you to know whats up with it and help people out.
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Old 03-19-2008, 10:01 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote: Originally Posted by $PK$ View Post
Well good luck with learning on how to tune the PRP. With the SCT seeming to be getting extremely popular, it would be awsome for someone like you to know whats up with it and help people out.



thanks,

and thats EXACTLY what i intend to do.

i wont give out P-werks tune that they'll give me, but when i get the PRP under control (prolly about 3-4weeks of usage till i understand everything) ill be willing to help give suggestions/basic base maps.

i have a big turbo setup, and matt (mana4real) has an e1/stock turbo, so maybe he and i can work in collaboration to make maps for ranging from the small turbos to BIG turbos to the general public for REALLY cheap, or free. doesnt matter much to me, except for the time street tuning w/ 91oct gas prices hitting $3.95! ouch.
not really looking to make any money. there's just no support for these things aside from OJCool. and we all know AGP/Pwerks/Janetty arent going to lend a tuner a hand in helping the general audience.

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Old 03-20-2008, 12:57 AM   #8 (permalink)
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I will do what I can to help you out man. SCT told me the wrong way to do the boost by gear. I think I got it right finally... Instead of boost by gear, I think it's boost by speed listed under boost by gear... I edited it and made a tune, but I am entertaining someone tonight so no dice on anything tested out... Prolly going to take my computer with me to work tomorrow and have shit done closer.

Stew, ATM I have nothing to add... I will come up with some shit tomorrow though...
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Old 03-20-2008, 05:11 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Very nice write up OJCool.Maybe add something about torque managment and the ability to delete and correct codes.The SCT tuning is such a great product for the SRT4. My car would not be where it is today without it. It drives smooth as stock with the power it should of came with from Mopar.
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Old 03-20-2008, 06:30 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote: Originally Posted by DRASTIC. View Post
thanks,
not really looking to make any money. there's just no support for these things aside from OJCool. and we all know AGP/Pwerks/Janetty arent going to lend a tuner a hand in helping the general audience.

Actually if you Rent my Dyno I would be willing to help with the tuning.

And If you buy the Pro Racer Package from Jannetty Racing I will set you up with a base tune to start from.

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Old 03-20-2008, 07:42 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote: Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING View Post
Actually if you Rent my Dyno I would be willing to help with the tuning.

And If you buy the Pro Racer Package from Jannetty Racing I will set you up with a base tune to start from.

I just wanted to say this, Before I started working for Ted I had an 03 Cobra and SCT was just hitting full swing.

Ted supported the SCT software amazingly, I was out tinkering with my Cobra constantly making everything perfect..which I did then I sold it .

I've seen him do a lot of Pro Racer Packages over the past few years and I haven't seen anyone be dissatisfied.

Most people have a niche tuning one type of vehicle. He has a niche tuning them all which is kind of scarey.

BTW, We give a basemap with the PRP that we allow to be edited.


For anyone who hasn't seen the Tuners here's what they look like

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Old 03-20-2008, 10:54 AM   #12 (permalink)
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your price of the PRP?
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Old 03-20-2008, 11:08 AM   #13 (permalink)
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good thread..this should be stickied..the more info about the sct the better..i will be investing in one soon enough...
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Old 03-20-2008, 11:48 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote: Originally Posted by DRASTIC. View Post
your price of the PRP?

We are bound by MAP pricing so Same as Everyone else but with a starter tune.
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Old 03-20-2008, 11:57 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote: Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING View Post
We are bound by MAP pricing so Same as Everyone else but with a starter tune.

MAP is Minimum Advertised Pricing... So, can something be done? I already have mine... But bump for everyone else... Any chance of sharing files ???
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