SCT PRP with full Stage 3 kit, worth it?

[Drachonyx]

My car currently has Mopar Stage 3 installed (stock, turbo has not been altered in no way, except for the WGA) with a couple of supportive bolt-ons and would like to get more from the current setup. I know that Stage 3 tends to run on the rich side, so I think that there is potential there, but I don't want to start fooling the computer with piggybacks. I don't consider I have great knowledge of car tuning, but I'll learn for sure.

So, I'm looking into buying an Innovate OT-1 and a SCT PRP, but I would like to have the advice of Stage 3 owners that are currently running an SCT tune (AGP, SCT, etc...). How much power should I expect to gain on 91 octane pump gas? Is it worth spending a grand on the package or should I keep the stock S3 PCM unaltered?

Thanks guys.

[e_freeman85]

i say dont do it just get a bigwheel for your stage 3 you will almost if not get the smae gains off the turbo as the prp if you are running the stage 3 pcm as it has an agressive timing curve already and seems to respond well with the big wheel stage 3s with no fuel controll

[wannasupra]

hrm. interesting idea.

[CIVICEATER]

Yes and also the fact that if you have no clue how our cars ecus operate then you will be lost and could end up blowing up your car. If you wanted to do a tune I wouldn't get the PRP, but the basic kit and find a good tuner that is familiar with the srt 4 like ted at jannety and let them tune it. With basically just a few bolt ons depending on what they are. I would only expect you to pick up 15-20hp on piss 91.

[NeonDan]

if you have the toys kit remove it and the s3 pcm, sell toys kit/pcm, go back to a stock pcm and tune away

[JANNETTYRACING]

Quote: Originally Posted by Drachonyx

My car currently has Mopar Stage 3 installed (stock, turbo has not been altered in no way, except for the WGA) with a couple of supportive bolt-ons and would like to get more from the current setup. I know that Stage 3 tends to run on the rich side, so I think that there is potential there, but I don't want to start fooling the computer with piggybacks. I don't consider I have great knowledge of car tuning, but I'll learn for sure.

So, I'm looking into buying an Innovate OT-1 and a SCT PRP, but I would like to have the advice of Stage 3 owners that are currently running an SCT tune (AGP, SCT, etc...). How much power should I expect to gain on 91 octane pump gas? Is it worth spending a grand on the package or should I keep the stock S3 PCM unaltered?

Thanks guys.

Having the ability to change what ever parameters you like is worth it's weight in gold.

Items such as Rev limiter, speed limiter, fan turn on/off points, boost by gear, A/F ratio, Torque management, Boost control in general, this is just a small sample of what you can play with, one at a time to achieve your goals.

Again there is no better tuning solution at this point.

Ted.

[csufdrew]

if you have toys, i say its not worth it. the timing map are perfectly fine for the turbo, hell, that was it was made for.

if you dont have toys and want a dedicated race gas map, then Id say its a wash.

if you want to lean it out, up the boost and get a bigger TB and intake.

[1320ME]

i say if your going to leave the stg3 turbo stock and not upgrade your injectors and do anything mayjor then i say no but if you r i say its worth it.

[Drachonyx]

Quote: Originally Posted by e_freeman85

i say dont do it just get a bigwheel for your stage 3 you will almost if not get the smae gains off the turbo as the prp if you are running the stage 3 pcm as it has an agressive timing curve already and seems to respond well with the big wheel stage 3s with no fuel controll

A big wheel is an option I would look for in the future. However, what I want to do for now is lean the tune a bit. I get AFR in the 10s for now and I think I should get more power by leaning the AFR.

Quote: Originally Posted by CIVICEATER

Yes and also the fact that if you have no clue how our cars ecus operate then you will be lost and could end up blowing up your car. If you wanted to do a tune I wouldn't get the PRP, but the basic kit and find a good tuner that is familiar with the srt 4 like ted at jannety and let them tune it. With basically just a few bolt ons depending on what they are. I would only expect you to pick up 15-20hp on piss 91.

I didn't plan to do anything fancy with the PRP, just increase the torque output, get leaner AFR, and maybe change the timing to get something safer. I'm sure that getting a canned tune would give great results, but then I would not learn how all this stuff work.

Quote: Originally Posted by csufdrew

if you have toys, i say its not worth it. the timing map are perfectly fine for the turbo, hell, that was it was made for.

if you dont have toys and want a dedicated race gas map, then Id say its a wash.

if you want to lean it out, up the boost and get a bigger TB and intake.

I already got a 62mm MPx throttle body and upped the boost to 24. I noticed the car was moving faster, but didn't felt confortable running 24psi with 91 octane gas, so I set it back to stock levels.

FWIW, here are my significant engine mods:

- Mopar Stage 3 (full kit, stock turbo) with toys (HOM & DAB only w/ self made wiring harness)
- AGP S3 WGA
- Modified stock charge pipe
- PTP direct fit FMIC
- JMB hard pipes w/ Greddy Type-S BOV
- CoolingMist Stage 3 HOM W/I kit
- MPx 62mm throttle body
- Hondata intake gasket
- PTP FP rewire
- Maxxfab O2 housing
- Maxxfab 3" DP w/ cat
- Mopar cat-back

Thanks for all your input guys.

[ojcool]

Quote: Originally Posted by Drachonyx

A big wheel is an option I would look for in the future. However, what I want to do for now is lean the tune a bit. I get AFR in the 10s for now and I think I should get more power by leaning the AFR.



I didn't plan to do anything fancy with the PRP, just increase the torque output, get leaner AFR, and maybe change the timing to get something safer. I'm sure that getting a canned tune would give great results, but then I would not learn how all this stuff work.



I already got a 62mm MPx throttle body and upped the boost to 24. I noticed the car was moving faster, but didn't felt confortable running 24psi with 91 octane gas, so I set it back to stock levels.

FWIW, here are my significant engine mods:

- Mopar Stage 3 (full kit, stock turbo) with toys (HOM & DAB only w/ self made wiring harness)
- AGP S3 WGA
- Modified stock charge pipe
- PTP direct fit FMIC
- JMB hard pipes w/ Greddy Type-S BOV
- CoolingMist Stage 3 HOM W/I kit
- MPx 62mm throttle body
- Hondata intake gasket
- PTP FP rewire
- Maxxfab O2 housing
- Maxxfab 3" DP w/ cat
- Mopar cat-back

Thanks for all your input guys.

Damn Skippy you should not feel comfortable running 24psi on 91 octane!

You should pick up some significant power by leaning that car out to a 11.5-12:1. Before you do that I would consider adding a degree of two of timing and see what affect that has on the a/f ratio. Often some timing in the right place will burn a whole point of fuel out of a fuel curve.

The "torque output" does not work the way I think you think it does. The torque table is not a "setting" like "I added 20ftlbs of torque to the table"; It's a table that reflects one value of an equation, including boost, a/f ratio, and timing. Essentially what the "desired torque" table does is control the wastegate.

If I were going to burn a custom tune for this setup I would use timing to lean it out, use desired torque to work on the boost curve, and finally spend time on the fuel curve down low to increase thermal pressure to spool the turbo quicker. A good SCT tuner should be able to generate very good results for you. I always think its worth the investment to go to SCT.

To get noticeable results with a setup like this is going to require timing and leaning out the fuel curve. You cannot leave a bunch of fuel in the car for a margin of safety and still get the customer noticeable improvement. You have to dabble on the edge of detonation a little.
The only person I could recommend who would exercise the proper amount of caution to execute this via email would be Ted at Jannetty Racing.

[SRT-What?]

Quote: Originally Posted by ojcool

finally spend time on the fuel curve down low to increase thermal pressure to spool the turbo quicker.

what kind of AFR are we talking here ? I definitely need a better spool up !

[Drachonyx]

Quote: Originally Posted by ojcool

Damn Skippy you should not feel comfortable running 24psi on 91 octane!

You should pick up some significant power by leaning that car out to a 11.5-12:1. Before you do that I would consider adding a degree of two of timing and see what affect that has on the a/f ratio. Often some timing in the right place will burn a whole point of fuel out of a fuel curve.

The "torque output" does not work the way I think you think it does. The torque table is not a "setting" like "I added 20ftlbs of torque to the table"; It's a table that reflects one value of an equation, including boost, a/f ratio, and timing. Essentially what the "desired torque" table does is control the wastegate.

If I were going to burn a custom tune for this setup I would use timing to lean it out, use desired torque to work on the boost curve, and finally spend time on the fuel curve down low to increase thermal pressure to spool the turbo quicker. A good SCT tuner should be able to generate very good results for you. I always think its worth the investment to go to SCT.

To get noticeable results with a setup like this is going to require timing and leaning out the fuel curve. You cannot leave a bunch of fuel in the car for a margin of safety and still get the customer noticeable improvement. You have to dabble on the edge of detonation a little.
The only person I could recommend who would exercise the proper amount of caution to execute this via email would be Ted at Jannetty Racing.

What's weird is that I didn't see knock on the Aeroforce gauge at 24 psi. W/I was off too.

I knew that "torque output" was related to wastegate control since moreause explained this to me a couple of days ago.

Thanks for the tips on changing timing, I'll take a look at how my PCM acts as soon as I'll receive my OT-1. Now, if that damn LC-1 could connect to my laptop. I think it's screwed.

How much significant power do you think I could pick?

[ojcool]

Quote: Originally Posted by Drachonyx

What's weird is that I didn't see knock on the Aeroforce gauge at 24 psi. W/I was off too.

I knew that "torque output" was related to wastegate control since moreause explained this to me a couple of days ago.

Thanks for the tips on changing timing, I'll take a look at how my PCM acts as soon as I'll receive my OT-1. Now, if that damn LC-1 could connect to my laptop. I think it's screwed.

How much significant power do you think I could pick?

I have the same LC1 and OT1 setup you have. It's a little temperamental isn't it?

It's all about the sequence, you hook up the OT1 by itself and set up the inputs you want.

Then unhook it and plug the LC1 into the serial port with both the OT1 and LC1 off,

then with both the OT1 and LC1 hooked up to each other but NOT to the laptop you turn everything on,

let the OT1 go through its interface routine, last you plug in the USB into the Laptop. Usually that works. But not always, just do it again eventually it will work.

Make sure you move the top left gauge on the Logworks software over b/c the LC1 gauge will appear right there and you can't see it if its behind one of the other gauges.


As far as a/f ratio for spool. Below 3500 RPM I have no problem with high 12's and I would not freak out if I saw a 13 or two. You're not going to blow up your engine down low, its up in the Rev's that things start to come apart with detonation. Lean is mean and contrary to popular belief its heat that spools a turbo, not exhaust backpressure. However, those two tend to go hand in hand. It's also heat that destroys turbines so a healthy dose of commons sense is appropriate here. With larger turbos EGT's are not going to be a huge concern; but with the stock turbo it's something to consider. Of course spool is not an issue on stock turbos so it's kind of a mute point.

[Drachonyx]

Quote: Originally Posted by ojcool

I have the same LC1 and OT1 setup you have. It's a little temperamental isn't it?

It's all about the sequence, you hook up the OT1 by itself and set up the inputs you want.

Then unhook it and plug the LC1 into the serial port with both the OT1 and LC1 off,

then with both the OT1 and LC1 hooked up to each other but NOT to the laptop you turn everything on,

let the OT1 go through its interface routine, last you plug in the USB into the Laptop. Usually that works. But not always, just do it again eventually it will work.

Make sure you move the top left gauge on the Logworks software over b/c the LC1 gauge will appear right there and you can't see it if its behind one of the other gauges.


As far as a/f ratio for spool. Below 3500 RPM I have no problem with high 12's and I would not freak out if I saw a 13 or two. You're not going to blow up your engine down low, its up in the Rev's that things start to come apart with detonation. Lean is mean and contrary to popular belief its heat that spools a turbo, not exhaust backpressure. However, those two tend to go hand in hand. It's also heat that destroys turbines so a healthy dose of commons sense is appropriate here. With larger turbos EGT's are not going to be a huge concern; but with the stock turbo it's something to consider. Of course spool is not an issue on stock turbos so it's kind of a mute point.

I had my share of problems in succeeding connecting the LC-1 to my laptop. Once it worked, I tried to update the firmware but the update failed. Since then, my LC-1 don't want to connect to any computer anymore. I just got an return authorization from Innovate to send the unit back to them. I hope I'll get it soon.

[SRT-What?]

Quote: Originally Posted by ojcool

As far as a/f ratio for spool. Below 3500 RPM I have no problem with high 12's and I would not freak out if I saw a 13 or two.