Good Dyno results! …. but PCM pulls Timing without knock!
Finally got the black SRT on the dyno (my gf neon).
- Daily driven tune (made by myself over the last year)
- Street boost (24 psi)
- Pump gaz (PetroCanada 94)
- AGP manifold
- Slightly ported intake manifodl
- Stock bloc/head/valve cover (never opened)
- Stock 'ported' TB (cleared the blade)
- RC750
- Big Intercooler
- 3in exhaust
First run: 399 whp / 374 wtq
Second run: 398 whp / 374 wtq
Third run: 399 whp / xxx wtq (We removed the cold air and gained a pound of torque)
Fourth run: 410 whp / xxx wtq (Raised the timing 1*@5000, 2*@5200rpm and 3*to redline (6500rpm)
We stoped there cause I think we are getting close to the rods/pistons limit....
I can’t upload the graphs right now at the job, I’ll update soon with a snapshot of the log. There is some oscillation on the curves but I've been told it is often seen with manual boost controllers (grainger valve FTW!)
It was the second time I was using the DS to datalog. I didn’t wanted to loose some accuracy so I went with the minimum amount of PIDs. The first runs I was only logging :
- RPM
- MAP
- PRatio
- Knock
- TPS
No knock. But the power curve was not flat; there were a big dip between 4500 and 4800.
I then logged the “Timing adjustments”. And there it was. 2-3-4-5 even 6 degree of timing adjustment at some point still WITHOUT any knock retard.
I don’t think we have reached the MBT timing. I assume it might have been because of the IAT raising during the pull or the commanded torque something like this…
Me and my girlfriend are pretty satisfied with the results. We were wondering how much power the engine was doing since she was raping M3s and Porsche Turbo on the highway. I will investigate to figure out what could be pulling the timing.
Last edited by SRT-What? : 11-05-2009 at 03:11 PM.
Ignore it. It goes up and down all the time even when Actual Spark Cyl 1 is relatively flat. I've stopped even logging it. imo it has no actual value.
Logging my Rev B list gives you nearly every PID you need to tune and its still logs pretty fast ~.15s per sample or ~7 samples per second.
Try logging with the laptop to see if its faster. A new crom update to the Trinity ramped up my logging stream up to ~60-70 samples/second and thats when logging +32 PIDs.
__________________
"Just because someone goes fast doesn't mean you should do whatever you think they did.
This path assumes they knew what they were doing, which isn't necessarily the case"..........RB Racing
Last edited by duster360 : 11-11-2009 at 01:53 PM.
That's actually a good one ! We are not 100% sure. We would have to open it up.
From the guy who sold it to us it would be a gt30 wheel on a plain bearing. It has a .63 exhaust and a 4" anti-surge cover. I guess we'll see one day... (it does only spool at 4000 rpm)
I was logging straight up with a laptop. It had enought sampling rate I guess. I will get use to it and log what I need. I'll try your dashboard next time.
I might have a contract for another SRT
(helping out my friend more than anything else)
Ignore it goes up and sown all the time even when Actual Spark Cyl 1 is relatively flat. I've stoped even logging it. imo it has no actual value.
That would explain why raising the timing did in fact bring the power up. I was wondering how come we could have gain any power by raising the timing if the computer was pulling the timing after !
i wont be able to upload the graph tonight, I forgot to send myself the files by e-mail and now I just have the paper copy... ah well.. no hurry.
run#2#and 3 didn't worked. The batteries on the laptop are not holding their charge anymore. It has to be hook to the power supply. Just by switching from 'acc' to 'ignition' the laptop would reboot and loose connection with the predator
run #4 -410 whp
Last edited by SRT-What? : 11-10-2009 at 07:09 AM.
From looking at the logs its more obvious where the dip in power came from. Looks like its from the dip in boost.
Street logging with the right PIDs will show more especially about the timing, but again from these logs it your boost control could use a little work.
Duster you lookin at the right line? Boost is the blue, which looks pretty rock steady, the white line is the timing.
And spark adj DOES have an impact on the total timing, usually the #1 culprit of pulled timing is intake temp. Base spark + spark adj = actual spark. If actual spark wasnt changing, only thing i can think of was your base spark was changing opposite. My actual 100% changes by spark adj shown on my scan gauge.
Sitting on the dyno the intercooler was not cooling efficiently enough and the IAT was rising, which lead to reduced timing. Raising the timing back up works, I tend to really limit the Spark adder tables for intake temp to keep my tune consistent. In some areas it will pull as much as ten degrees off the top. I left the extremes alone, but made the middle 5 or 6 rows all zeros, which covers 95% of my driving. If was to make a pull through 3 gears and REALLY heat the sucker up, I would still be covered by the extremes.
__________________
04 Eblue - AGP powered...D55 FTW
*NE 400 Club*
Last edited by 04blusrt_4 : 11-11-2009 at 02:24 PM.
Duster you lookin at the right line? Boost is the blue, which looks pretty rock steady, the white line is the timing.
If there were no Boost spike, there would NOT be a presumed"big dip between 4500 and 4800."
He was complaining about a power dip. #2 run shows it very clearly. TRQ spikes up with boost at 4100-4200 then dips 2-3psi by 4400-4600(hard to tell without the file) And so does HP. Once Boost stabilizes by about 4800 so does TRQ and Hp rises linearly as it should.
Spark adjust is a the entire collection of timing modifies. Unfortunately you'd need an Enigma machine to sort them all out. Since they're all lumped in together, imo it winds up being a bunch of noise. That's why I don't bother logging it.
Keep in mind that my gf srt was only street tune and that the results you see here are from the tune we did on the street. No tuning was done on the dyno exept the added timing on the last run.
The guy we did yesterday came from a shop that billed him $1600 for a tune. First run with his tune made 385 whp but the curve was not really good looking. he had an initial spike at 370 wtq @4200, than a dip to 350 wtq from @4200 to 5000, than another spike to about 370 wtq @ 5200. He told us that when he was gunning it on the road it would rip in first and second gear but die in his face in 3rd. That was at 22 psi. The AFR were at some place in the 10.0 then 11 than 10.x again.
We started slowly with the base tune of my gf (S2 timing). Then adjusted the AFR. After a couple of pulls it was in the consistently in the mid 11 AFR. The torque curve was getting larger every pull and a lot flatter. We did all the pulls at about 21 psi (give or take 0.5).
I will upload the graph and the logs by tomorrow (I hope). It took 8 pulls and 2.5 hours.
300 wtq from 3500rpm
340 wtq from 3750rpm
350 wtq from 4000rpm
360 wtq from 4250rpm
Consistant 390 wtq from 4500rpm to 5300rpm
Peak whp of 407@5600, 382 wtq
Falling torque after 5600 rpm. Adding timing didn't help. I suspect a better flowing tb will help (he just received a big tb but not installed)
The 7th pull we raised the boost a click, got a 22 psi "spike" holding 21 and got 420 whp. But had something like 2.5KR. We lower the boost and got the final results.
Last edited by SRT-What? : 11-12-2009 at 10:50 AM.
Falling torque after 5600 rpm. Adding timing didn't help. I suspect a better flowing tb will help (he just received a big tb but not installed)
Logging TIP pressure and comparing it to MAP will tell you if a larger TB will make any difference. If the pressure differential between TIP/MAP is larger than ~1-1.5psi you should seen a power increase from a larger tb. Keeping the pressure differential under .5psi is the rule of thumb.
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Good Dyno results! …. but PCM pulls Timing without knock!
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