HFS-5 Kit Question(s)

[cali]

So as not to clutter the intro thread, I figured I'd start this one.

My one questions is, what is the limitation of using the Shurflo Pump, versus the usual Aquamist pump ?
Basically, I'd like to hear the technical difference(s) as far as delivery, flow, atomization, and weight

[turbojack]

Hi Cali, this might help with your question. If not I'll spend some time and get some info together and give a more detailed answer....let me know

see post # 12
http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=246685

[cali]

Based on this thread:
Help with water injection jet/nozzle selection

In my case, S3R kit, supposedly flowing 775cc @75PSI = 3100CC/min running about 22PSI boost.

10% Water = 310cc/min
20% Water = 620cc/min

The HFS Kits comes with 0.8 thru 1.0mm jets. So should I need to order additional jets for fine tuning?
I'm planning on running somewhere between a 60/40 or 50/50 (water/meth) ratio.

Additionally, are there any changes to the FIA2 to accomodate this new pump, it pressure and flow rates? Or is it identical to the one used in the piston pump?

Will the use of 2 jets in this kit suffer the atomisation problem you described when using the piston pump for 2 nozzles ?

[turbojack]

I'll need defer to Richard on the recommended jet selection with the Shurflo pump.

The kit comes with a Y quick connect connector so that 2 jets cans be used and the atomization problem is not there with the Aquamist/Shurflo 150W pump.

The FIA function does not rely on the pump and does not need info on the pump type or capabilities. The FIA2 is concerned with FIDC input info and output to the HSV only.

[cali]

So just to be clear....the HSV using the piston pump or Shurflow, will have the same flow characteristics using identical jet, at the same IDC?

[Richard_L]

Cali

This is nice place to discuss this in more details.

I like to split it into two parts:

1. System pressure:
125psi is fixed : main draw back is manifold pressure. The degree of interference to flow is related to your operating span.

For example:
If your WI operates between 15-25psi, you will have a gradual line pressure decline of up to 10psi at 25psi (manifold pressure). Actual mass flow rate decline is the square root of 10/125psi = 2.83% at 25psi boost.
I have not yet find another drawback for the time being.


2. Linearity of HSV vs preesure vs jet size:
At 125psi, a known nozzle size will give the same flow barred the manufacturing tolerances. This is fixed.
For example:
(figures are abstract for purpose of illrustration only)
- A jet flows 1000cc of water per minute at a given pressure.
- An inline valve flows 2000cc/min (open flow) at the same given pressure.

A pwm signal is applied to the valve, the open flow will be proportional to the %DC, ignore opening and closed time of the valve for the time being.
Now put the 1000cc/min jet in front of the valve, the flow will not be proportional to DC any more. At 50% DC, the flow will peak.

One simple way to overcome this is by putting a 1000cc/min restrictor on the upstream of the valve. The flow will now be linear again. You will find this method also applies to the common fuel injector. If the front plate is removed because someone decide to increase the flow in a cheap way. The injector will no longer match to the duty cycle.

For the HFS-5, we will supply a table of jet selection against restrictor size. The system will be supplied with a couple of inline restrictor. typically 0.5 and 0.7mm. It can be drilled larger for other flows.

Here is a thread touched on this subject on the following Aquamist forum:
http://www.aquamist.co.uk/phpBB2/vie...estrictor#9017

[cali]

So with regard to #1, you have no issues with this slight drop @higher boost/rpm combo ?

And just to make sure I understand:
Using 310cc jet, the flow loss at 25PSI (example posted) is 8.77cc/min ?
Using 620cc jets, the flow loss at 25PSI (example posted) is 17.xx cc/min ?

[Richard_L]

Yes, your assumption is perfectly valid. You can over size the nozzle a bit if you like. Give and take a few cc here and there, makes little difference on afr and wfr overall.

[cali]

Cool! Thanks.

[NJKiko]

Richard_L or turbojack,

Is the "OE BOOST CONTROL VALVE" in the bottom left of the following diagram 806-234? And if so, is it supposed to be daisy chained in with an already installed boost controller? This way if the water level is low (or another failsafe event occurs to turn off the system) that component will be disabled and you'll be boosting at regular levels (and running a little richer I'd imagine)?

[cali]

One more Q for me....on the float sensor...is that one wire a true GND/ EARTH? because if so, I'd love to bolt it onto some metal rather than run 2 wires.

[Richard_L]

I have redrawn the boost valve assembly (806-435), basically a 806-234 + T-piece.

I cannot see why the control valve cannot be daisy chained - it should work. If anything goes wrong with the water injection, the boost should revert to the pre-WI level. you are 100% right.

Not sure if the engine management will reduce fuel after boost drop - cannot answer that question.

[Richard_L]

Quote: Originally Posted by cali

One more Q for me....on the float sensor...is that one wire a true GND/ EARTH? because if so, I'd love to bolt it onto some metal rather than run 2 wires.

Yes, there is a ground (green).

You only need to run one 4-core wire (main harness) back to the DDS3 junction box. - Everything else is pre-terminated, pre-wired to the 40A relay. The float sensor is terminated with a 2-way plug.

[cali]

Oh I didnt know that it comes with its own connector.
My question was based on what I have right now with the dds3. I guess I'll have to wait until the rest comes in

[turbojack]

Cali where are you mounting the pump?