Molé OFFICIAL BWS discussion/info thread!!!! - Page 2 - SRT Forums - SRT4, SRT6, SRT8, SRT10 & Dodge Forum
 
 


Go Back   SRT Forums - SRT4, SRT6, SRT8, SRT10 & Dodge Forum > Supporting Vendor Forums > Darrell Cox Racing

SrtForums.com is the premier Dodge SRT Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-05-2012, 01:38 PM   #16 (permalink)
SRTforums Member
Untrustworthy Seller
 
mole''s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Member Number: 17477
Location: SoCal (760/661)
Posts: 50,397
Lifetime Premium Member
Default

check out the BWS FB page. search "Mole' 16g/BWS Srt-4 turbo"
__________________
DCR spiced and Tuned by the Mad Scientist team
Jay@N2MB and Nigel@BST (turbo666)
Mole' (STOCK TURBO) 16g BWS setup #s
380hp+ and 444tq+
11.7@122
1.71 60ft
PM/email me for all your 16g/18g/20g BWS setup and DCR needs...... Darrell Cox Racing on facebook, 1-517-369-9636 10am-5pm est webstore... DCRSRT.com. email me at s3rmole@gmail.com .
mole' is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 04-05-2012, 03:29 PM   #17 (permalink)
Premium Member (Lifetime)
 
Zenkat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Member Number: 10522
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 2,189
Lifetime Premium Member
Default

Quote: Originally Posted by mole' View Post
check out the BWS FB page. search "Mole' 16g/BWS Srt-4 turbo"

Checked and Liked.
__________________

11.21@127.88
Zenkat is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 03:57 PM   #18 (permalink)
Retired Member
 
XXxx_Totmacher_xxXX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Member Number: 9649
Location: Mission Viejo
Posts: 11,453
Default

Quote: Originally Posted by rw44 View Post
Would be nice to get a dyno of another car with just the turbo, and one with the turbo and manifold and lay it over moles dyno to see the difference between each part/tune

As long as it's done on a Dynojet and they get the .drf file I can do it. I did it for a few others in the other thread. I just need the files.
XXxx_Totmacher_xxXX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 05:37 PM   #19 (permalink)
SRTforums Member
 
csufdrew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Member Number: 1843
Location: CA
Posts: 1,910
Default

Quote: Originally Posted by XXxx_Totmacher_xxXX View Post
As long as it's done on a Dynojet and they get the .drf file I can do it. I did it for a few others in the other thread. I just need the files.

feel free to overlay my stage 3 turbo run files I emailed to you a few months ago, andrew...w...80@gmail.com

I really like how comparable Moles BWS compares with the Stage 3 turbo powerband.

For $499, this is a KILLER deal! Just look at the inducer on the compressor wheel compared to the stock turbo....bigger inlet hole = more potential power! Along with a ported/elbow modded manifold, this should be a great bargain at 1/2 the cost of the Stage 3 turbos
__________________
Stage 3 turbo / E85 / SCT PRP
12.133 @ 120.490 MPH

csufdrew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 05:41 PM   #20 (permalink)
SRTforums Member
Untrustworthy Seller
 
mole''s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Member Number: 17477
Location: SoCal (760/661)
Posts: 50,397
Lifetime Premium Member
Default

Quote: Originally Posted by Zenkat View Post
Checked and Liked.



Quote: Originally Posted by csufdrew View Post
feel free to overlay my stage 3 turbo run files I emailed to you a few months ago, andrew...w...80@gmail.com

I really like how comparable Moles BWS compares with the Stage 3 turbo powerband.

For $499, this is a KILLER deal! Just look at the inducer on the compressor wheel compared to the stock turbo....bigger inlet hole = more potential power! Along with a ported/elbow modded manifold, this should be a great bargain at 1/2 the cost of the Stage 3 turbos


__________________
DCR spiced and Tuned by the Mad Scientist team
Jay@N2MB and Nigel@BST (turbo666)
Mole' (STOCK TURBO) 16g BWS setup #s
380hp+ and 444tq+
11.7@122
1.71 60ft
PM/email me for all your 16g/18g/20g BWS setup and DCR needs...... Darrell Cox Racing on facebook, 1-517-369-9636 10am-5pm est webstore... DCRSRT.com. email me at s3rmole@gmail.com .
mole' is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 07:07 PM   #21 (permalink)
SRTforums Member
 
BOOSTMONSTR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Member Number: 80184
Location: OC
Posts: 944
Default

I like this new thread Mole'. Your BWS's are great. Half the cost of a used S3 kit WITH your ported elbow mani for NEW parts, that can potentially make the same power..


This is the setup that should have come from the factory...
__________________
Garrett t3/t4 60-1 with anti-surge full E85
255 w/ bnf feeding surge w/ Bosch 044
1200cc seimens / aero fpr / fuel cooler
Cti charge pipe/ hotside/ cx bfmic/
Ed cold pipe w/ greddy type s/ 55mm tb
4" intake/ stock longblock -bs chain
Bc br 6k/6k, prothane master kit
Progress front and rear sways/
18x8.5 Rays gramlights on fed 595ss.
BOOSTMONSTR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 09:45 PM   #22 (permalink)
SRTforums Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Member Number: 30696
Location: minnesota
Posts: 2,071
Default

have any close up pictures of how the anti surge was done?
__________________

AEM EMS, 2150cc injectors, PTE 6262, howards rods,strapkit, Eliminator Fuel pump, RealTune 5speed, BC stage 4 cams, Ported head, JMFAB intake manifold, Fuel surge tank, walbro 255, 5 bar MAP sensor, Weld wheels, HOOSIER QTP, Weisco Pistons, ARP head studs, Gates timing belt...,...,...
amdguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 10:06 PM   #23 (permalink)
SRTforums Member
 
TylerM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Member Number: 85528
Location: MN
Posts: 487
Default

Hopefully will have some time slips to add to here the 14th. Like I posted on the other thread just need to make $70 hahahah
__________________
2005 Silver - Sold
2006 Evo IX SSL
2004 E-Blue SRT-4
-Stage 3 kit
-Stage 3 coilovers
TylerM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 10:33 PM   #24 (permalink)
SRTforums Member
Untrustworthy Seller
 
mole''s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Member Number: 17477
Location: SoCal (760/661)
Posts: 50,397
Lifetime Premium Member
Default

Quote: Originally Posted by BOOSTMONSTR View Post
I like this new thread Mole'. Your BWS's are great. Half the cost of a used S3 kit WITH your ported elbow mani for NEW parts, that can potentially make the same power..


This is the setup that should have come from the factory...



Quote: Originally Posted by amdguy View Post
have any close up pictures of how the anti surge was done?

i had some posted in the other thread. ill post them in here too.

Quote: Originally Posted by TylerM View Post
Hopefully will have some time slips to add to here the 14th. Like I posted on the other thread just need to make $70 hahahah

i said i wanted that SRToc LP in your FS thread.
__________________
DCR spiced and Tuned by the Mad Scientist team
Jay@N2MB and Nigel@BST (turbo666)
Mole' (STOCK TURBO) 16g BWS setup #s
380hp+ and 444tq+
11.7@122
1.71 60ft
PM/email me for all your 16g/18g/20g BWS setup and DCR needs...... Darrell Cox Racing on facebook, 1-517-369-9636 10am-5pm est webstore... DCRSRT.com. email me at s3rmole@gmail.com .
mole' is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 10:52 PM   #25 (permalink)
SRTforums Member
Untrustworthy Seller
 
mole''s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Member Number: 17477
Location: SoCal (760/661)
Posts: 50,397
Lifetime Premium Member
Default

Quote: Originally Posted by kagekun View Post
What would be the benefit, if any, of not having the exhaust wheel clipped. Ill be putting mine in a ptp Intimidator with external wastegate so pressure on the exhaust side should be minimal

Quote: Originally Posted by blackbird_R/T View Post
You wouldn't lose turbine efficiency and it potentially wouldn't reduce the strength of the turbine wheel fins (although this isn't usually too big of a problem when done correctly on the stock TD04 wheel). The main thing is the shop doing the work needs to do precision, quality work when machining the wheel so that you get the clip at the correct amount and angle and that it remains in balance when complete.

With the stock turbo if you try to cram a bigger compressor wheel into a machined compressor cover you're going to move even more air mass through the engine than stock. The exhaust side has an integral turbine housing cast into the manifold with a very small 6cm² nozzle area and the turbo uses a tiny TD04 reverse-rotation turbine wheel, neither of which you can easily upgrade without significantly reworking the manifold to the point where you may as well upgrade to a Mopar Stage 3 setup if you're trying to maintain a stock-like appearance.

You can port and polish the runners of the manifold, clean up the post-turbine and O2 housing/elbow/wastegate flapper area and it may help a little with increasing airflow and efficiency but you still have the massive restriction of the turbine housing and turbine wheel. If you slapped on a big 16G-family or 16G6 compressor wheel in the stock turbo that tiny turbine is still going to spool it up very fast and this can result in surging.

This isn't the type of surging where you don’t have a blow-off or diverter/surge valve and upon closing the throttle the air stacks up and slows down the compressor, but instead is the type of surging where you spin the compressor too fast but at too low of a pressure ratio for it to efficiently move air. In other words the compressor is spinning fast but isn't able to move enough air mass for that pressure ratio (boost level) and the airflow stalls out, causing the compressor wheel to harshly stop and start spinning repeatedly until it is out of the surge range. This places a lot of stress on the wheels, bearings, and shaft.

If you looked at a compressor map for whatever compressor wheel you're using this will be the far left line often labeled as the surge limit. By clipping the turbine wheel you lose some efficiency but this may be necessary, as the turbo won't spool quite as fast therefore reducing the tendency for the compressor to surge. With the reduction in back-pressure it can also help control EGTs which are already high on a bone stock turbo, let alone slapping in a bigger compressor wheel into one and trying to move even more air mass through the hot (exhaust) side.

Quote: Originally Posted by kagekun View Post
What would be the benefit, if any, of not having the exhaust wheel clipped. Ill be putting mine in a ptp Intimidator with external wastegate so pressure on the exhaust side should be minimal

Quote: Originally Posted by blackbird_R/T View Post
You wouldn't lose turbine efficiency and it potentially wouldn't reduce the strength of the turbine wheel fins (although this isn't usually too big of a problem when done correctly on the stock TD04 wheel). The main thing is the shop doing the work needs to do precision, quality work when machining the wheel so that you get the clip at the correct amount and angle and that it remains in balance when complete.

With the stock turbo if you try to cram a bigger compressor wheel into a machined compressor cover you're going to move even more air mass through the engine than stock. The exhaust side has an integral turbine housing cast into the manifold with a very small 6cm² nozzle area and the turbo uses a tiny TD04 reverse-rotation turbine wheel, neither of which you can easily upgrade without significantly reworking the manifold to the point where you may as well upgrade to a Mopar Stage 3 setup if you're trying to maintain a stock-like appearance.

You can port and polish the runners of the manifold, clean up the post-turbine and O2 housing/elbow/wastegate flapper area and it may help a little with increasing airflow and efficiency but you still have the massive restriction of the turbine housing and turbine wheel. If you slapped on a big 16G-family or 16G6 compressor wheel in the stock turbo that tiny turbine is still going to spool it up very fast and this can result in surging.

This isn't the type of surging where you don’t have a blow-off or diverter/surge valve and upon closing the throttle the air stacks up and slows down the compressor, but instead is the type of surging where you spin the compressor too fast but at too low of a pressure ratio for it to efficiently move air. In other words the compressor is spinning fast but isn't able to move enough air mass for that pressure ratio (boost level) and the airflow stalls out, causing the compressor wheel to harshly stop and start spinning repeatedly until it is out of the surge range. This places a lot of stress on the wheels, bearings, and shaft.

If you looked at a compressor map for whatever compressor wheel you're using this will be the far left line often labeled as the surge limit. By clipping the turbine wheel you lose some efficiency but this may be necessary, as the turbo won't spool quite as fast therefore reducing the tendency for the compressor to surge. With the reduction in back-pressure it can also help control EGTs which are already high on a bone stock turbo, let alone slapping in a bigger compressor wheel into one and trying to move even more air mass through the hot (exhaust) side.

Quote: Originally Posted by blackbird_R/T View Post
By the way, one other comment on modifying the stock exhaust manifold for an external wastegate. If you can't add a strong enough spring in a wastegate actuator (WGA) to hold the stock internal flapper valve shut then you have bigger concerns with exhaust back-pressure and an external wastegate will only be a Band-Aid. Sure, you might be able to hold a little more boost near redline but that's because the larger surface area of the external gate's valve combined with higher spring tension and/or using the boost pressure to help keep it shut will force the exhaust gas to go through the exhaust housing and turbine wheel. This will cause the back-pressure to skyrocket as there's no way for any of the spent combustion gasses to vent around the turbine.

Before running a car like that I'd highly recommend tapping the manifold pre-turbo to watch EGTs and then pull the thermocouple probe out and install a pressure gauge on the end of a length of coiled copper tubing (to help aid in cooling for the gauge). Preferably you'd do the same to a bone stock setup and be able to compare the numbers and also do the same type of testing before and after manifold work where lower back-pressure and lower peak EGTs with no other changes would back up and validate the manifold or turbo improvements. The results might be surprising for some setups and people who think more boost is always better.

Quote: Originally Posted by Zenkat View Post
Maybe someone can explain better, the differences in the 16g family? LCR said he was using a big 16g in his BWS (the one i own). Mole says he's using a 16g. I've also heard the term 'small' 16g. I've tried to search for answers on how they differ with no success.

Quote: Originally Posted by blackbird_R/T View Post
There are different size compressor wheels in MHI (Mitsubishi Heavy Industries) 16G-family that have different diameter inducer (leading edge of the fins) and exducer (wider, base area) sizes of the compressor wheel. The stock SRT-4 TD04LR-16Gk-6cm2 turbocharger uses a "smaller" sized 16G compressor relative to the other wheels in the family such as the common "big" 16G and 16G6 reverse rotation compressor wheels used in many Mitsubishi vehicles (which are what's inside most of the upgraded big wheel stock SRT-4 turbos). I'd have to dig up the inducer/exducer specs and see if I have any on this computer, but if you search for "big 16G compressor map" and "16G6 compressor map" there's quite a few resources out on the internet that will show the flow differences.

.....
__________________
DCR spiced and Tuned by the Mad Scientist team
Jay@N2MB and Nigel@BST (turbo666)
Mole' (STOCK TURBO) 16g BWS setup #s
380hp+ and 444tq+
11.7@122
1.71 60ft
PM/email me for all your 16g/18g/20g BWS setup and DCR needs...... Darrell Cox Racing on facebook, 1-517-369-9636 10am-5pm est webstore... DCRSRT.com. email me at s3rmole@gmail.com .
mole' is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 10:56 PM   #26 (permalink)
SRTforums Member
 
TylerM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Member Number: 85528
Location: MN
Posts: 487
Default

Sorry man! It was the first thing that sold :/
__________________
2005 Silver - Sold
2006 Evo IX SSL
2004 E-Blue SRT-4
-Stage 3 kit
-Stage 3 coilovers
TylerM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 10:59 PM   #27 (permalink)
SRTforums Member
Untrustworthy Seller
 
mole''s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Member Number: 17477
Location: SoCal (760/661)
Posts: 50,397
Lifetime Premium Member
Default

Quote: Originally Posted by TylerM View Post
Sorry man! It was the first thing that sold :/

i would have paid $50 for that thing.


__________________
DCR spiced and Tuned by the Mad Scientist team
Jay@N2MB and Nigel@BST (turbo666)
Mole' (STOCK TURBO) 16g BWS setup #s
380hp+ and 444tq+
11.7@122
1.71 60ft
PM/email me for all your 16g/18g/20g BWS setup and DCR needs...... Darrell Cox Racing on facebook, 1-517-369-9636 10am-5pm est webstore... DCRSRT.com. email me at s3rmole@gmail.com .
mole' is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2012, 11:12 PM   #28 (permalink)
SRTforums Member
 
TylerM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Member Number: 85528
Location: MN
Posts: 487
Default

I wouldn't have allowed that sir. If I can sell my stock intake fuel pres regulator or modded canister I'll be golden.
__________________
2005 Silver - Sold
2006 Evo IX SSL
2004 E-Blue SRT-4
-Stage 3 kit
-Stage 3 coilovers
TylerM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 10:19 AM   #29 (permalink)
Retired Member
 
XXxx_Totmacher_xxXX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Member Number: 9649
Location: Mission Viejo
Posts: 11,453
Default

Quote: Originally Posted by csufdrew View Post
feel free to overlay my stage 3 turbo run files I emailed to you a few months ago, andrew...w...80@gmail.com

I really like how comparable Moles BWS compares with the Stage 3 turbo powerband.

For $499, this is a KILLER deal! Just look at the inducer on the compressor wheel compared to the stock turbo....bigger inlet hole = more potential power! Along with a ported/elbow modded manifold, this should be a great bargain at 1/2 the cost of the Stage 3 turbos



Attached Thumbnails
Molé OFFICIAL BWS discussion/info thread!!!!-csufdrew-vs-mole-hp.jpg   Molé OFFICIAL BWS discussion/info thread!!!!-csufdrew-vs-mole-hp-tq.jpg  
XXxx_Totmacher_xxXX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2012, 04:04 PM   #30 (permalink)
Premium Member (Lifetime)
SRT of the Month
 
underSRTarmor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Member Number: 32888
Location: N. La/ E. Tx
Posts: 9,178
Lifetime Premium Member
Default

I'm just wondering.
__________________
TUNED By MindMelt101
MyBuild Thread
10.99 @132.23 1.70 60ft 27 psi
Need Fuel setup ideas click here
Props go out to:
Mindmelt101, Tuner Geeks, Act, Wikyd Performance, Pwerks

Last edited by mole'; 04-06-2012 at 05:07 PM. Reason: i deleted his post.
underSRTarmor is online now   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:53 PM.



(C) SRTforums.com

Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2