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Old 03-06-2006, 06:13 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default detailed trans issues**pics**

ok i have been waiting for the oppurtunity to make a thread on this and a customer dropped one off so that i can show you whats goin on with our tranny's.
I'm not going to bother with all the b.s. but rather get right to the point.this trans is out of the car and already torn down .

here without the forks and all gears labeled

ok now you have an idea of what it looks like inside lets get to business.take a look at the 3/4 synchronizer since this is where majority of the problems exist.here is a closer look with 4th gear removed

right above the sync there is supposed to be a snap ring that holds the sync in place.this snap ring is what seems to be the most popular of breaks.the reason why it breaks is due to excessive force when shifting from 3rd to fourth gear.because of the motion of shift being towards you and in the heat of the moment your adrenaline is rushing you can really yank on it and force it into gear.by doing this the sync,blocker ring and gear are trying to mesh together to apply the gear.if it is not fully applied,too much force is transmitted through the fork and sync and ultimately cracks the snap ring that holds it in place.what happens next is the biggest problem.underneath 4th gear there is a caged needle bearing that looks like this

once that snap ring breaks every shift from 3rd to fourth will result in the sync moving upwards into the needle bearing and cracks the plastic cage that the bearings sit in.this causes bearing failure and in this particular case,fourth gear locked up while still in 3rd and catastrophic failure occured.see illustration below

you can also see in this pic that the input shaft was damaged as well due to bearing failure

heres a pic of the snap ring broken in its position

now there alot of other things that can go wrong with the trans.ive done quite a few that just the 3/4 synch just gets worn and grinds going into third but i think the biggest problem is the snap ring.
now how to eliminate the problem..thats a whole different vegetable!.i dont have resources for custom gears and what not but heres what im thinking.the synch itself wouldnt have this problem if it was welded to the shaft...the only problem is if you ever wore down the sync you wont be able to change it so thats pretty much out the door.now if someone could make a slightly undersized sync then it would have to be pressed on to the input shaft i think that will solve alot of the problems.i dont know but i would love to discuss this with someone who can make their own gears or other engineering experience that could shine some light to make it better
what are your opinions?
jay
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Old 03-16-2006, 12:31 AM   #2 (permalink)
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so any news if you guys will be able to improve this weak point
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Old 03-16-2006, 12:39 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote: Originally Posted by AGPsrt
so any news if you guys will be able to improve this weak point

We've been in talks with a major manufacturer, we don't jinx ourselves
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Old 03-16-2006, 07:23 AM   #4 (permalink)
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interesting
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Old 03-17-2006, 01:12 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote: Originally Posted by hozay09
We've been in talks with a major manufacturer, we don't jinx ourselves

good to hear i am very interested in this cause in a nut shell my trans= shit 6 days out of the week. but im not kidding i have a lot of issues shifting.

P.S. i tried the driver mod.
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Old 04-10-2006, 10:26 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Very interesting. Nice write up! I like your analysis.

The press on synchro is a great idea, shouldn't be hard to make it work.

What about upgrading the snap ring? My first and honest impression would be look look at the snap ring and see if improvement can be done there. Could require extra machine work which would not necessarily be helpful.

Just my quick opinion and suggestion. I think I will present this to a friend and see what he thinks also. What luck have you had with the press on synchro?

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Old 04-10-2006, 10:37 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote: Originally Posted by Mike V.
Very interesting. Nice write up! I like your analysis.

The press on synchro is a great idea, shouldn't be hard to make it work.

What about upgrading the snap ring? My first and honest impression would be look look at the snap ring and see if improvement can be done there. Could require extra machine work which would not necessarily be helpful.

Just my quick opinion and suggestion. I think I will present this to a friend and see what he thinks also. What luck have you had with the press on synchro?

Mike

ive thought long and hard on the snap ring and not too sure how many options there are.i could send a snap ring to a lab and have it analyzed.it would probably work good if it were a bit taller but then the clearance for the 3/4 needle bearing would probably be +/- 0.with the abuse that synch takes any flex on the snap ring will collapse the cage.then again maybe its possible to simply use a taller snap ring and ream the snap ring guide then cut the bearing cage down a couple thousandths to compensate....maybe,i dunno but yeah that would be great if you could share the info with a couple other guys.the more input the better.
i was going back and forth quaife america about it but trying to get them to call me back is like trying to get my wife to stop shopping.
i kinda like the idea of a select fit synch myself but like i said i dont have the resources to make my own parts.even if it were undersized im not too sure the inner teeth of the synch would pass over the 3/4 bearing boss without contacting and scoring.i appreciate any and all info
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Old 04-12-2006, 05:02 PM   #8 (permalink)
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i wonder what mine looks like inside lol
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Old 04-12-2006, 10:20 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote: Originally Posted by BoostedNeon04
i wonder what mine looks like inside lol

You'll find out tomorrow
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Old 04-12-2006, 10:39 PM   #10 (permalink)
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mnike joooones!! heres the dilly...i was kinda hopin for the best but the tow truck dropped off the car and from what you explained i was hopin that it was just the shift selector that was broken and all the synchs were good.i pulled out the selector and sure enough it was broken and the piece was locking two of the gates together,thats why you had no gears at all.anyhoo i swapped out the selector and third gear synch feels like poo poo.i took it for a ride after i changed the selector and it vibrates like you have a broken tripod in one of the axles.gimme a call in the am,were gonna drop the unit out in the morning
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Old 04-13-2006, 01:25 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote: Originally Posted by never2muchboost
mnike joooones!! heres the dilly...i was kinda hopin for the best but the tow truck dropped off the car and from what you explained i was hopin that it was just the shift selector that was broken and all the synchs were good.i pulled out the selector and sure enough it was broken and the piece was locking two of the gates together,thats why you had no gears at all.anyhoo i swapped out the selector and third gear synch feels like poo poo.i took it for a ride after i changed the selector and it vibrates like you have a broken tripod in one of the axles.gimme a call in the am,were gonna drop the unit out in the morning


sounds good jay ill call u tomm thank you for the heads up
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Old 04-27-2006, 06:30 AM   #12 (permalink)
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hey..............has anyone ordered tranny parts lately???

i went to order some snap rings the other day and found out that the snap ring supercedes into the entire input shaft...

anyone ordered one?pics?maybe they made it better?someone?usually i would just oprder one if i was that curious but its a $700 shaft.
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Old 04-27-2006, 06:33 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote: Originally Posted by never2muchboost
hey..............has anyone ordered tranny parts lately???

i went to order some snap rings the other day and found out that the snap ring supercedes into the entire input shaft...

anyone ordered one?pics?maybe they made it better?someone?usually i would just oprder one if i was that curious but its a $700 shaft.

If you need any tranny parts my boy BTR is parting out a transmission.


http://www.srtforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=241858

He will be back from banning next week or so.
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Old 04-27-2006, 06:41 AM   #14 (permalink)
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thanks but no thanks,i pay less than that new.
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Old 07-26-2006, 09:18 AM   #15 (permalink)
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bump..
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