Thanks John for this. I think it may have helped me identify a problem. Unfortunately it may have come to late for me. After anxiously waitning to recieve my new FPR mod from you, I quickly installed it....What I didnt pay close attention to was the fact that after I took the FPR off and dumped out the fuel, it had a medium to dark color of grey to the color of the gas. Sounds like the filter inside is clogged, causing my car to run not so well. Wish I could go back and do it all over. Last week me and nottasrt4 installed his Aaron Neon fuel return line, and the fuel that came out of his FPR was clear as day in comparison. I am virtually leak free after doing what seemed like 20 or more boost leak tests. Guess I am gonna need another FPR mod. Can you possibly sell me one with it already installed in the FPR, and I simply pay you for both parts? I just really want my car back to normal. I have stage 2 and it just feels so much slower than my friends Stage 1, and I have tons mor mods than him. Just goes to show, it isnt what you have, its how what you have is performing! Any help would be appreciated.
Quote: Originally Posted by ptperformance
I will leave this thread open for now to see where it goes if it gets bad (haters need not apply) then I will close it and leave it as info only. Thanks and if you want to use this thread as a "this is what I found" posting area feel free to post up what you found on your car that made it run poorly. Then post what you did to make it run better.
I am absolutly not an expert, however I think that some type OBD-port logger or scanner is key to a great running car. There is so much info locked in the PCM that you need to watch that it is just as valuable as an EGT for tunning.
I am absolutly not an expert, however I think that some type OBD-port logger or scanner is key to a great running car. There is so much info locked in the PCM that you need to watch that it is just as valuable as an EGT for tunning.
No questions about that. But this was for the basics only that could be done in a day sitting in your driveway if need be. Now with that a OBD II scanner (gauge type works as well) you can monitor several things (knock and timing come to mind right away) that could leed you to a problem much quicker. The basics and then you have to move from there to either a OBD II test tool (can help narrow down the mechanical problems that I listed) or it can even help with a bad tune/bad gas issue. There is so much that could have been said but the basics were the main reason for the post since it seems like lots of people have forgot about them.
I get several PM's everyday about how peoples cars are doing this or doing that and I decided that if I made some sort of check list this might help.
Background on me, I have been a tech for over 20 years. All aspects have been my speciality. Everything from tranny overhauls to ECM/PCM repair. I have done it all (even water leak specialist, that really sucked). So here is my guide for you to get the most out of your car.
1st
Boost leak test, boost leak test, boost leak test. Boost leaks can and will kill a cars performance. Why you may ask? Our little turbos have a hard enough time getting enough CFM (flow) to the engine as it is why make it any more difficult for it.
Now a boost leak test has to be done with a shop compressor that can pump 90 PSI and over 5 CFM. This is the only way you can be sure it is sealed up all the way and no leaks exsist. A bike tire pump or a unit you plug into your car will not cut it. Alway boost leak test to 5 psi over what you highest boost levels are, so if you are running 20 psi spike/hold you need to take it to 25 psi. Leak down of some boost is ok but it should stop around 15 psi and stay there. Now just because you boost leak tested 2 weeks ago doesnt mean that all the leaks are gone. The stock clamps seem to come loose over time and its easy to strip the stockers. So tighten the clamp that had the leak and boost leak test again to check that it has been fixed. Just because you tightend the clamp doesnt mean that the leak is gone. A big source of un-fixable leaks is the t-body (stock or aftermarket) so that will be something that you will have to address if yours is leaking.
When your done boost leak testing then its onto zip ties. You must zip tie every boost line on the car. Why? because when you start to up the boost you will find out that lines like to blow off from everywhere and they will blow off when the car is hot so fixing some of them will end up with burnt fingers, hands, and forearms. Do it now and you will thank me later.
This is the first thing you do if you feel your car is not performing at its best.
2nd
Knowledge. If you put a WGA (aftermarket) on your stock SRT-4 and boost it to 21psi and it performs like crap, you dont know enough about your car and you will be calling us very soon for a new motor. Read before you listen to your buddies, more boost is not always more power. There is a wealth of knowledge here on the forums and if you can get threw all the crap then you might be able to understand what is good for your car and what is bad.
Now I will list a few people that I think you should listen to (some of who I dont get along with but I dont feel that they would steer the members here wrong),
Now these are in no paticular order and I know that there are several others on here that know what they are talking about. But these few guys are the heavy hitters here on the forum and have a lot of input to give that I feel it is very accurate. I have talked to most on the phone or had a lot of PM's between us. Any thread that these guys have posted in will most of the time steer you in the correct direction. They do dissagree from time to time on subjects but its not very often.
3rd
Stick to the basics, fuel, air, and spark.
Just because you put new plugs in doesnt mean that the plug gap is correct. Everytime you install a new part dont just assume its a good part. New doenst mean that its good, most of the time its the case but dont go checking everything after a tune up because you have spark blow out or a miss fire. Its what you did that caused the problem not what happend because of it, understand.
I have seen several cars that lack power but have good AFR's plenty of fuel and a very good (new) tune up, just to find out that the air filter for there CAI has 40K miles on it and has more dirt on it then filter. Your car needs air and if you can not see the air filter it out of site out of mind type of deal.
Spark is where some knowledge will play a part again. Just because you have new MSD coil on there doesnt mean that its a good part (search and you will see what I mean). You have to check your wires by pulling them off checking the resistance and checking the connections for white powdery stuff. The white powder stuff is a indication that the resistance is to high and its burning up the wires/coil. Resistance test will be the easiest way to tell that there is a problem, all the wires should test very close to each other and under 1k. If they are over that time to get some new wires and while your at it a PTP coil heat shield (shameless plug for our product).
Now just as air is needed fuel is a very important part. Our cars do have a fuel filter and they cost $108 shipped. Its intergrated into the FPR and its the silver can that the fuel line goes to on your fuel tank (look under the pass side rear door, you will see a silver can with a line going to it). I have seen these plug up at 40K miles and at 15K miles. I have blown them out with air and seen the AFR's drop as much as .5 (richer) on the AFR gauge at WOT at redline. What comes out of them when I blow them out is just black gunk. If you are running lean at redline but you have just added a little bit of boost? Its either the pump or the filter that is causing the problem. Filter will kill a pump if its plugged enough so keep that in mind.
4th
If your going to run more boost and fuel you need a wideband or a dyno tune that has a wideband to tune with. A wideband in the car is always better because it will tell you the health of you cars tune all the time not just one time on the dyno. Dyno tunes can vary (most of the time they do) since the air flow across the intercooler and the outside air is not the same as the air inside the dyno shop (temps, contaiminents, and other such things in a shop can affect the air quality) so your tune could be off when you hit the street. If you didnt skimp on your mods then dont skimp on the health monitor for your motor, wideband is nessasary if you want a long life of consistant HP from your car.
Now you have followed this guide to the word and you still dont feel that your car is performing well... its time to dig into the motor and start doing leak down tests, compression tests, checking the cam timing, ect ect. Rule of thumb if you can not find the reason your car is running bad but everything checks ok.... 80% of the time its something mechanical that is causing it, anything from exhaust leaks, low compression, partialy blown head gasket, ect ect. This is where either you have to know what you are doing and are a competent mechanic or you will have to take it to someone that knows our cars. Some dealerships have an idea as to what they are doing and others employ idiots. Find a good tech or someone that knows more in your area about our cars to assist you in finding the problems.
Now there will be your friends, father in-laws, brothers, hell even your sister might say that she knows how to make your car fast, but truth be told there are more people out there that have lost power or just hurt the motor because of listening to people that have no idea as to what they are talking about. Read read read and learn about your car, just because your buddy has a WGA and turbo back exhaust running 21 psi smokes all your friends doesnt mean he did it right. He will need a motor soon if there is not enough fuel. Again there is a right way and a wrong way to make your car perform and I hope this helps in directing you to the correct way.
I get several PM's everyday about how peoples cars are doing this or doing that and I decided that if I made some sort of check list this might help.
Background on me, I have been a tech for over 20 years. All aspects have been my speciality. Everything from tranny overhauls to ECM/PCM repair. I have done it all (even water leak specialist, that really sucked). So here is my guide for you to get the most out of your car.
1st
Boost leak test, boost leak test, boost leak test. Boost leaks can and will kill a cars performance. Why you may ask? Our little turbos have a hard enough time getting enough CFM (flow) to the engine as it is why make it any more difficult for it.
Now a boost leak test has to be done with a shop compressor that can pump 90 PSI and over 5 CFM. This is the only way you can be sure it is sealed up all the way and no leaks exsist. A bike tire pump or a unit you plug into your car will not cut it. Alway boost leak test to 5 psi over what you highest boost levels are, so if you are running 20 psi spike/hold you need to take it to 25 psi. Leak down of some boost is ok but it should stop around 15 psi and stay there. Now just because you boost leak tested 2 weeks ago doesnt mean that all the leaks are gone. The stock clamps seem to come loose over time and its easy to strip the stockers. So tighten the clamp that had the leak and boost leak test again to check that it has been fixed. Just because you tightend the clamp doesnt mean that the leak is gone. A big source of un-fixable leaks is the t-body (stock or aftermarket) so that will be something that you will have to address if yours is leaking.
When your done boost leak testing then its onto zip ties. You must zip tie every boost line on the car. Why? because when you start to up the boost you will find out that lines like to blow off from everywhere and they will blow off when the car is hot so fixing some of them will end up with burnt fingers, hands, and forearms. Do it now and you will thank me later.
This is the first thing you do if you feel your car is not performing at its best.
2nd
Knowledge. If you put a WGA (aftermarket) on your stock SRT-4 and boost it to 21psi and it performs like crap, you dont know enough about your car and you will be calling us very soon for a new motor. Read before you listen to your buddies, more boost is not always more power. There is a wealth of knowledge here on the forums and if you can get threw all the crap then you might be able to understand what is good for your car and what is bad.
Now I will list a few people that I think you should listen to (some of who I dont get along with but I dont feel that they would steer the members here wrong),
Now these are in no paticular order and I know that there are several others on here that know what they are talking about. But these few guys are the heavy hitters here on the forum and have a lot of input to give that I feel it is very accurate. I have talked to most on the phone or had a lot of PM's between us. Any thread that these guys have posted in will most of the time steer you in the correct direction. They do dissagree from time to time on subjects but its not very often.
3rd
Stick to the basics, fuel, air, and spark.
Just because you put new plugs in doesnt mean that the plug gap is correct. Everytime you install a new part dont just assume its a good part. New doenst mean that its good, most of the time its the case but dont go checking everything after a tune up because you have spark blow out or a miss fire. Its what you did that caused the problem not what happend because of it, understand.
I have seen several cars that lack power but have good AFR's plenty of fuel and a very good (new) tune up, just to find out that the air filter for there CAI has 40K miles on it and has more dirt on it then filter. Your car needs air and if you can not see the air filter it out of site out of mind type of deal.
Spark is where some knowledge will play a part again. Just because you have new MSD coil on there doesnt mean that its a good part (search and you will see what I mean). You have to check your wires by pulling them off checking the resistance and checking the connections for white powdery stuff. The white powder stuff is a indication that the resistance is to high and its burning up the wires/coil. Resistance test will be the easiest way to tell that there is a problem, all the wires should test very close to each other and under 1k. If they are over that time to get some new wires and while your at it a PTP coil heat shield (shameless plug for our product).
Now just as air is needed fuel is a very important part. Our cars do have a fuel filter and they cost $108 shipped. Its intergrated into the FPR and its the silver can that the fuel line goes to on your fuel tank (look under the pass side rear door, you will see a silver can with a line going to it). I have seen these plug up at 40K miles and at 15K miles. I have blown them out with air and seen the AFR's drop as much as .5 (richer) on the AFR gauge at WOT at redline. What comes out of them when I blow them out is just black gunk. If you are running lean at redline but you have just added a little bit of boost? Its either the pump or the filter that is causing the problem. Filter will kill a pump if its plugged enough so keep that in mind.
4th
If your going to run more boost and fuel you need a wideband or a dyno tune that has a wideband to tune with. A wideband in the car is always better because it will tell you the health of you cars tune all the time not just one time on the dyno. Dyno tunes can vary (most of the time they do) since the air flow across the intercooler and the outside air is not the same as the air inside the dyno shop (temps, contaiminents, and other such things in a shop can affect the air quality) so your tune could be off when you hit the street. If you didnt skimp on your mods then dont skimp on the health monitor for your motor, wideband is nessasary if you want a long life of consistant HP from your car.
Now you have followed this guide to the word and you still dont feel that your car is performing well... its time to dig into the motor and start doing leak down tests, compression tests, checking the cam timing, ect ect. Rule of thumb if you can not find the reason your car is running bad but everything checks ok.... 80% of the time its something mechanical that is causing it, anything from exhaust leaks, low compression, partialy blown head gasket, ect ect. This is where either you have to know what you are doing and are a competent mechanic or you will have to take it to someone that knows our cars. Some dealerships have an idea as to what they are doing and others employ idiots. Find a good tech or someone that knows more in your area about our cars to assist you in finding the problems.
Now there will be your friends, father in-laws, brothers, hell even your sister might say that she knows how to make your car fast, but truth be told there are more people out there that have lost power or just hurt the motor because of listening to people that have no idea as to what they are talking about. Read read read and learn about your car, just because your buddy has a WGA and turbo back exhaust running 21 psi smokes all your friends doesnt mean he did it right. He will need a motor soon if there is not enough fuel. Again there is a right way and a wrong way to make your car perform and I hope this helps in directing you to the correct way.
would an exhaust leak after installing the PTP exhaust manifold cause me to not be able to hold more than 13 to redline w/ an agp wga and ptp spring..
also if there is a leak in the exhaust piping somewhere in the middle of the car could that hurt performance?
to clarify: exhaust leak between the motor and the exhaust manifold
__________________
ChicagolandSRTclub member #70
13.639@99.98 / 269whp / 290wtq as of 10/06...now? mauahha
Last edited by KALVIN97GAGT : 06-01-2007 at 12:08 PM.
would an exhaust leak after installing the PTP exhaust manifold cause me to not be able to hold more than 13 to redline w/ an agp wga and ptp spring..
also if there is a leak in the exhaust piping somewhere in the middle of the car could that hurt performance?
to clarify: exhaust leak between the motor and the exhaust manifold
Yes it will not allow the exhaust gasses to drive the turbo. Fix that leak and you will have much more boost.
Thanks John for this. I think it may have helped me identify a problem. Unfortunately it may have come to late for me.
Excellent! 
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