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Old 06-12-2006, 05:11 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default PCV Detailed Explanation w/CV and CC info

I have read too many PCV system threads to count and have found a lot of good answers spread out over them. Unfortunately, I have also seen people who post incorrect things, often based on their often uninformed opinion.

So that being said, I will attempt to consolidate my understanding, with a lot of information that I have gathered through research, as well as inputs from venders of this forum.

First let me explain the SRT-4’s stock PCV (Positive Crankcase Ventilation) system. The simple answer has two parts.
1- To vent the combustion gasses the leak past the piston rings and vent oil vapors that build up in the crankcase and replace these gasses/vapors with filtered fresh air.
2- To improve emissions by re-routing these gasses/vapors back into the combustion chambers via the intake manifold to be burned and sent out your exhaust system.


This is a basic picture of the PCV valve itself in the closed position. This should be how it is during boost, backfire or with the car off. In all these conditions no crankcase or blow by gasses should be vented through the PVC valve back to the intake.


In this picture the PCV valve is in the open position. This is the state of the PCV valve during moderate intake manifold vacuum (or normal throttle) providing maximum flow of engine vapors back to you intake.


This last picture shows the PCV valve during high intake manifold vacuum (or during engine de-acceleration, or idle) during this state the PCV is still open, but does not flow as much.


This first picture shows our basic stock PCV set-up operation during idle or cruise. During this time your boost gauge should read apx -20vac for idle or roughly that for cruise (depending on if you are accelerating or de-accelerating). Notice the air flow. Because of the vacuum present at the intake the PCV valve is open and passing the gasses/vapors present in the valve cover. Clean air is also pushed/drawn into the valve cover through the breather side.


This picture shows the basic stock PCV operation during boost. Again take a look at the air flow. The vacuum at the intake is now boost. This pressure is going to travel up the line and push the PCV closed. With nowhere else to vent the gasses in the valve cover will be routed through the breather nipple back into your air intake.

With all that being said the stock set-up has its inherent faults. First, all that crankcase oil and blow by vapor goes to one of two places:

1. It gets routed back to your intake manifold. There some of it gets burned and expelled through your exhaust. The rest of it drains down into you throttle body/upper pressure pipe/intercooler. Anyone who has swapped their pipes or intercooler can back this statement.
2. It gets routed back to you air intake. Here it can gunk up you turbo/lower pressure pipe/intercooler.
3. The stock PCV valve has been identified as a probable boost leak. See one example of many:

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My PCV leaks boost. I make a boost leak tool as shown by others on these forums, connected my air compressor hose, and adjusted air pressure up until the boost guage inside the car read 16 PSI of boost. I found two leaks on the hot side by listening with a 3/8" piece of fuel line hose (it amplifies the noise, works great). OK, but back to the PCV, after all clamped areas were leak free I kept hearing air from inside the engine. I was draining the oil at the time and could feel air coming out of the oil drain plug and was like WTF? So I took a wrench and loosened the PCV and pulled it out of the valve cover (turn it counter clock wise by the nut with a wrench, it twist right out). With PCV valve out air was no longer coming out of oil drain hole and I could feel the air coming out of the PCV valve, which is still connected to the throttle body hose. Not a lot of air, but it was coming out of there for sure. Now my car only has 1,000 miles on it and the PCV is not gumbed up or sticky. So I ask my son to get in the car and look at the boost guage. Then I put my finger on PCV valve and boost goes from 16 to 17 PSI then I let my finger off and it goes back to 16 so boost is leaking there. Haven't checked my air filter yet but there may be some oil in there. Anyway, after this test I do think a check valve in between the intake and newly installed catch can would stop this leak. I may try and get a PCV from the auto parts store that does not leak and just go that route because there is no reason the PCV should be leaking boost like mine is being the PCV valve is a check valve.
_____________________________________________

There are a few modifications you can perform to help with these problems.

The first is the oil catch can (CC). There are at least two tried and tested set-up for this application. A CC can be purchased by various venders.
1. Using a CC in line between the PCV valve and the intake manifold to collect oil. Also use a breather style filter on the breather side of the valve cover.

2. Using a CC on both the PCV line and between the valve cover breather and the air intake.


The second is installing a check valve (CV) in line with the PCV valve and the intake manifold (as close to the manifold as possible). As many know the PCV valve is actually a check valve itself. However, as many have noted, the stock PCV valve frequently leaks boost past it into the valve cover. This is not a desirable boost leak for a couple reasons. I will not get into it but you can find it later in some of the good links that I will provide. To remedy this install a better quality CV. Take a look at this pick depicting a CV installed with a CC. I believe this is the best set-up for our PCV system.


I personally recommend the CV that PTPerformance sells. There has been a lot of shit about the effectiveness or safety concerns of their or any check valve. Let me clear this issue. You absolutely want your PCV to work during vacuum but not leak during boost. PERIOD. Our stock PCV (check valve) opens at -.4vac. The PTPerformance CV opens at -.2vac. This shows that it will not stop the stock PCV from opening under vacuum. The PTPerformance CV is also rated to hold 125 PSI. Boost leak stopped. It is also rated for 220degree f. and a flow rating higher than would ever be needed. I am plugging PTPerformance because their CV works. Yes, you may be able to go to a hardware store and by one but you don’t know the ratings and it may be a piece of shit. Like these: The first with unknown readings and the second that warped under the heat.
.

These are some other good targets for more/other info. Some that helped me put this post together:
http://cjsupra.kendra.com/PCV-Can.html
http://s6.invisionfree.com/Michigan_...showtopic=1089
http://www.boostcontroller.com/qandaiframe.php

I hope this post helps out some of you. Others will STILL remain skeptical or have their opinions. That’s cool too. I just urge you to make INFORMED decisions, not just spit what they have heard.

Adam
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Old 06-12-2006, 03:30 PM   #2 (permalink)
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This needs to be stickied, very great information here...very nice writeup sir.
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Old 06-12-2006, 11:22 PM   #3 (permalink)
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No prob...
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Old 06-13-2006, 01:12 AM   #4 (permalink)
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This is the best write up I have ever seen. I will sticky it in my section as well as see if I can get the admin to sticky this in other areas. Sorry I have not had the time to read it all and I didnt want to post in it untill I had. It is stickied, thanks again for all your hard work in this, it looks great.
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Old 06-13-2006, 08:52 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Excellent write up! I suggest that the 2nd CC on the drivers side breather to the cold side intake is probably not needed. The flow of air/blowby should only go from the cold side into the valve cover breather tube if the whole system is operating properly. There should be no blowby from the driver's side breather. The PTP CV works awesomely- i recommend using hose clamps on the hose from the intake manifold to the CV- much more secure than zip ties. After the CV to the CC and PCV valve won't matter as all those hoses and fittings should never see boost again. my2c Michael
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Old 06-29-2006, 02:22 PM   #6 (permalink)
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damn good write up...I needed that...thank you search button
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Old 07-02-2006, 11:08 PM   #7 (permalink)
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does the arrow on the check valve, when installed, face the TB or away from the tb?
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Old 07-03-2006, 02:54 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Towards the t-body.
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Old 07-04-2006, 07:22 AM   #9 (permalink)
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cool thanks.
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Old 07-04-2006, 08:18 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Excellent job in writing this up.
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Old 07-04-2006, 04:03 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Yes the write up is the best I have ever seen. Bump for all to see.
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Old 07-06-2006, 02:22 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Just an update to show the performance gains from PT Performance's check valve.

I do not yet have a heavily modified this car (CAI, CC) as far as performance goes and this srt is very new (1500 miles). I have had performace increases with the check valve installed.

I tried this out over the space of a week with the check valve on then off then on then off....I got to see it work in high rpm in 4th and 5th too (thanks to the german autobahn).

Without the CV (stock set-up and new PCV valve) I would get 12psi and fall to 10-11 to redline in all gears

With CV istalled I would peak at 15psi and hold 13 to readline! And this is pretty much bone stock on s0. Can't argue with that.
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Old 07-09-2006, 06:00 PM   #13 (permalink)
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YES, and I'm not getting oil blown into my intake system under boost like I did before I installed the PTP CV. My catch can has no oil showing in the level tube on the side after 2K mi.! A must for all srt4s. All the crap conversations about no PVC, vent this way or that are moot. If you do it the way you see at the beginning of the thread- problem solved, conversation over. My 2c
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Old 07-11-2006, 02:46 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote: Originally Posted by adam213
Just an update to show the performance gains from PT Performance's check valve.

I do not yet have a heavily modified this car (CAI, CC) as far as performance goes and this srt is very new (1500 miles). I have had performace increases with the check valve installed.

I tried this out over the space of a week with the check valve on then off then on then off....I got to see it work in high rpm in 4th and 5th too (thanks to the german autobahn).

Without the CV (stock set-up and new PCV valve) I would get 12psi and fall to 10-11 to redline in all gears

With CV istalled I would peak at 15psi and hold 13 to readline! And this is pretty much bone stock on s0. Can't argue with that.

Well if it has been tested on the Autobahn then it has to work. It is good to have someone over there that can test some parts for me. I might be hitting you up with some PM's in reguards to some "speed testing" that I am in need of.
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Old 07-13-2006, 01:53 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote: Originally Posted by ptperformance
Quote: Originally Posted by adam213
Just an update to show the performance gains from PT Performance's check valve.

I do not yet have a heavily modified this car (CAI, CC) as far as performance goes and this srt is very new (1500 miles). I have had performace increases with the check valve installed.

I tried this out over the space of a week with the check valve on then off then on then off....I got to see it work in high rpm in 4th and 5th too (thanks to the german autobahn).

Without the CV (stock set-up and new PCV valve) I would get 12psi and fall to 10-11 to redline in all gears

With CV istalled I would peak at 15psi and hold 13 to readline! And this is pretty much bone stock on s0. Can't argue with that.

Well if it has been tested on the Autobahn then it has to work. It is good to have someone over there that can test some parts for me. I might be hitting you up with some PM's in reguards to some "speed testing" that I am in need of.

Let me know what i can do. I am here until June 07 and am interested in anything you have. Just PM me. Look forward to hearing from you!

Adam
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