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intercooler vs meth

5K views 60 replies 17 participants last post by  apexcrazy 
#1 · (Edited)
I know there is multiple threads on this but I was just curious, I know getting an Intercooler could add around 10 hp but I haven't really seen to much on the type of HP gains that are possible with meth/water Injection, im assuming it also depends on how well the car is tuned for it ( I know its not a set number but maybe a percentage?) . I want to know what would be better for longevity/ hp gains/ price. The car is my DD very minimal mods, intake, catless dp, hopefully more to come.

Thanks
 
#3 ·
the larger intercooler on stock turbo will make our tiny stock turbo work harder to fill, thus making its life span shorter. the stock intercooler or a direct fit replacement is ideal for stock turbo. the meth will somewhat do the same thing, it will cool your charge temps and cure some knk, allowing you to raise boost and mess with timing. a noce tune to fully benefit from the meth is the key but simply installing meth and raising boost and checking your AFR and ST KNK LT KNK will do fine til
you get it tuned.


Sent from Iphone.
 
#4 ·
the larger intercooler on stock turbo will make our tiny stock turbo work harder to fill, thus making its life span shorter. the stock intercooler or a direct fit replacement is ideal for stock turbo. the meth will somewhat do the same thing, it will cool your charge temps and cure some knk, allowing you to raise boost and mess with timing. a noce tune to fully benefit from the meth is the key but simply installing meth and raising boost and checking your AFR and ST KNK LT KNK will do fine til
you get it tuned.
I was close lol still learning about the meth stuff myself.
 
#5 ·
ur all idiots and noobs. Get a bigger intercooler trust me. I gained over 3mph on just an intercooler upgrade.

I went from 12.8s to 12.30s from just the intercooler change

Stop giving out retarded informantion to the OP
 
#7 ·
Water meth is more then DD friendly if that is your concern. The benefits of running water meth (with a tune) will far outweight those of a bigger intercooler (assuming you mean a direct fit, anything bigger then that will hurt performance). The stock intercooler works very well. Its just heat soaked fast. Water/meth will help that issue a lot by cooling the charge temps so in a way its making the stock intercooler more efficient. On stock turbo with your given mods... Water/meth will wake your car up.
 
#15 ·
to the OP, when i was stock turbo and stock cooler the best i could squeeze out of the stocker was 12.8s on Meth and 94.. but even at that point the stock cooler was causing my AIT's to go pretty high causing my car to get some KR (around 3.5)

But to me water meth is the fist mod along with a dsp to put on ur car.

My car with the following went 12.8@107.4mph (25psi spike dropping to 14)

water meth kit
Borla catback with no cat
MAP clamp (old school styles lol)
Stock cooler along with everything else
return line (a must with stock injectors at that time)

Same nite added the huge ass custom IC that my friend made for me

first pass

12.36@112mph (changed the plugs as well and had to ADD fuel) 94 and meth

These days a custom tune with a DSP (talk to nigel) and a good exhaust and cooler will net you EASY mid 12s on meth and pump.


Dont listen to these guys about the stock cooler being good enough and that ur turbo will work too hard ( still laughing) Ur AIT will SKYROCKET causing ur car to knock like crazy on pump alone TRUST ME.

Good luck :)
 
#18 ·
to the OP, when i was stock turbo and stock cooler the best i could squeeze out of the stocker was 12.8s on Meth and 94.. but even at that point the stock cooler was causing my AIT's to go pretty high causing my car to get some KR (around 3.5)

But to me water meth is the fist mod along with a dsp to put on ur car.

My car with the following went 12.8@107.4mph (25psi spike dropping to 14)

water meth kit
Borla catback with no cat
MAP clamp (old school styles lol)
Stock cooler along with everything else
return line (a must with stock injectors at that time)

Same nite added the huge ass custom IC that my friend made for me

first pass

12.36@112mph (changed the plugs as well and had to ADD fuel) 94 and meth

These days a custom tune with a DSP (talk to nigel) and a good exhaust and cooler will net you EASY mid 12s on meth and pump.


Dont listen to these guys about the stock cooler being good enough and that ur turbo will work too hard ( still laughing) Ur AIT will SKYROCKET causing ur car to knock like crazy on pump alone TRUST ME.

Good luck :)
I would take this guy's advice over anyone else that has posted in here so far just saying...
 
#26 ·
ya direct fit should do him nicely... hell even the CXR direct fit is really cheap and good from what ive heard.

I run their big front mount.
 
#28 ·
funny thread...thread is funny lol. I never kept the stock turbo long enough to give a damn or know anything about it really....but I know that my stock FMIC heat soaked DURING a 2nd-4th run on my 50t at like 20 psi. I personally wouldn't keep a stock unit on my car from that experience
 
#29 ·
well yes i wouldnt want a stock ic
on a 50trim either, op was reffering to stock turbo.

turbolag: yes im on the stock ic as ive been told is the best(besides maybe a direct fit replacement) for stock turbo, also with meth.


Sent from Iphone.
 
#30 ·
Lmao at people saying the stock ic is the best for stock turbo. Fucking noobs I swear. Have fun heat soaking that bad boy when you get to about 19 psi. Let us know how it performs at the track on the first run then the ones following. I promise you will see a decrease in trap speed.
 
#31 ·
The stock ic may be sufficient for stock boost levels on a stock car but the minute you turn it up the stock turbo starts blowing hotter and hotter. More so then increased horsepower an upgraded intercooler will help keep the heat from robbing you more and more between runs. the stock I/c Heatsoaks FAST. Turbolag is right
 
#32 ·
thats why i mentioned a direct fit will be ideal jnstead if bfmic but also op was comparing meth to bfmic. i stated he would get more out of it if he just got the meth, itll still cool the charge. i stated facts and it all depends what your goals are. people dont usually do runs one right after the other so itll have a few mins to cool down from being heat soaked, but can be avoided with a bfmic. just saying...


Sent from Iphone.
 
#34 ·
Good info from turbolag on the first page (Y)

I have datalogs from my last years track runs with a stock fmic with charge temps 140+ with s2 spiking around 20psi. So yes a bfmic will definitely help!! That was ONE run as well after the car sat for more than an hour (huge staging lines)

lol @ the turbo working harder with a bigger ic though:p where do you think the air is going anyways staying in the intake?

Meth is going in soon so I'm going to do datalogs with stock cooler with meth, then bfmic when I get one and compare the data.

Yes if you go with a HUGE intercooler you'll gain more lag with the stock turbo, but something like a direct fit agp will dissipate more heat and you will gain more power. Meth lowers your combustion temps as it burns colder than gas so you can run more advanced timing aka more power without using race gas.
 
#36 · (Edited)
your last paragraph is what im saying also.

this is straight from the performance guide from north:
"4. The last modification for this section is an intercooler upgrade. When the turbo compresses the charge heat is generated as an undesirable side effect. To cool the charge back down the SRT-4 comes equipped with an air-to-air intercooler that looks like a radiator. As the car is in motion (or being blown on by a fan at the dyno), outside air passes through the intercooler and takes with it some of the heat of the charge inside of it. The factory unit is extremely well designed and good to at least 350hp however due to it's small size it develops 'heat soak' after a couple of pulls. Heat soak is a condition where the intercooler is simply too hot for the outside air rushing past it to have much of cooling effect on the charge. To correct this I recommend upgradeing to a thicker 'direct fit' unit such as the AGP Direct Fit Intercooler. These units have cast end tanks like the stock unit which doesn't generate turbulance allowing the charge to flow freely through it. They have a thicker core which combats heatsoak, don't require any cutting or removal of your front crash bar (not safe), cool the charge better than the stock unit (remember for every 10F you lower the charge temp you get ~1% hp) and will support around 400hp. I DO NOT recommend BFMIC (big front mount intercoolers) on stock, Stage 3 or entry level big turbos. Most don't flow very well so you get drops in pressure accross them, take much longer to pressurize so throttle response gets slow and the motion of the car combined with their weight has a tendency to either tear them open or damage the mounting points on the car."

which is what im saying that a bfmic is not NEEDED for stock turbo. id rather go meth.


Sent from Iphone.
 
#35 ·
End of the track 4th gear, stock turbo, stock ic at 18psi

You can see the outside temp is around 86 degrees, so that's the lowest you could possibly get the charge temp, and the underhood temps around 110 by the end. Still a 17 degree temp change between iat and charge temps and 52 degrees between outside and charge temps. So with a big enough intercooler that's 52 degrees colder iats.

Hope this helps a bit

 
#40 ·
The maximum boost book on page 64 was the exact thing that came to mind when I recommended the agp direct fit in my first post judging by the end tank designs. Thanks for the link to that shootout thread first time seeing that.

And yes I never really realized how much the ambient temps rise under the hood with the shitty intake, I needed something that would fit with my meth nozzle and bov on the aftermarket cold pipe though.
 
#41 ·
Thats why i have my ambient inside the fender... gets alittle more cooler air in there


Duster:
I wasnt trying to be a dick but im sick of ppl going around saying that a bfmic will hurt the car or turbo for that matter. After all these yrs something had to let go :lol:
 
#42 ·
Thats why i have my ambient inside the fender... gets alittle more cooler air in there
Thats not any better. The PCM needs to know the correct air temp.

Intake air needs to be pulled from the fender so its as close to TRUE ambient temp as possible AND accurately measured.

For a stock turbo, the STOCK airbox does a great job at this
 
#45 ·
Modify the stock airbox to use a 3 inch filter and pipe. You keep the good design of the stock box, sensors stay in the proper locations, as well as the factory valve cover vent, and can use it on any turbo with a 3 inch inlet. Of course you lose all that "space" everyone uses to justify their purchase of a $250 tube.
 
#61 ·
Meh , ill agree , mostly . Its a blurry line when it happens to a competent owner . Its out of the question for my daily driver . That said i must also say my agp race ic is too big for my s3 turbo . An agp dfic would suit my setup much better . But my stock ic caused my intake temps to cause ecu to pull mad timing , e85 prevented knock but didnt help intake temps . So i guess in the too small/too big ic argument , that moderation is the key .
 
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