Intercooler doubts - Page 4 - SRT Forums

toofast82 · 12-08-2012, 05:37 PM

Having had the stock fmic, spearco dfmic and an mpx fmic on stock turbo, i'd just get a bigger fmic honestly if your going to run pump 91-93oct. If you plan on running e85 or water/meth all the time, then the stock fmic will be plenty fine as the e85 will keep combustion temps cooler than pump gas and the water/meth will cool the air right before it reaches the throttle body
During 3rd and 4th gear pulls the air charge temps would go WAY above ambient on stock fmic.
On spearco dfmic, they would still heat up about 35-45* above ambient, much better than the stock fmic though
And on the mpx, temps stay pretty close to ambient, maybe 10* more on very hot days.

s3*ps2 · 12-08-2012, 06:10 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Turbolag87

It was next day at the track lol. Can't get better that

Fixed boost leaks with new intercooler install. :P

Rhunter · 12-09-2012, 12:13 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by SoloSrt

Hhhmm, maybe I should get a BFMIC before a 3" TBE?

Seriously through, I see that it isn't a "useless" mod on a stock turbo car. To each their own. I personally would do many other things first.

Fucking THIS!!!!!!!

Lav · 12-09-2012, 12:46 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by SoloSrt

Hhhmm, maybe I should get a BFMIC before a 3" TBE?

Seriously through, I see that it isn't a "useless" mod on a stock turbo car. To each their own. I personally would do many other things first.

Well I am still on stock turbo and other than going E85 or meth i think ive done just about all I can do on stock without going big turbo which I dont have the budget for right now .

Tuned DSP
Bigger injectors
straight pipe exhaust
blablablabla those are the main performance mods , im working on getting a return line set up and look into E85 since it seems like a better option over meth .

As far as the IC goes seems everyone has had different results with BFMIC on stock turbos >__<

**glhs837** · 12-09-2012, 01:35 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by jay05acr

^in all honesty I think direct fit's are worthless.... Crash bar in this piece of shit isn't going to save anyone

Sorry, Jay, but you are wrong. The crash bar has a very important roll in the overall performance of the front crumple zone, and replacing it some welded up bar stock is nothing but using a piece of toilet paper on a machete cut.

That thing is a seriously engineered piece of HSS whole purpose is twofold. One is to crush and absorb crash forces directly, lengthening the time the impact takes, but more importantly, it redirects that crash energy into the front subframes, who's job it is to stretch out that impact time and change sharp impacts over a short time into less peaky forces over more milliseconds, reducing injury overall and helping the airbags keep your ass alive.

Why a crash beam is a good thing.

Turbolag87 · 12-10-2012, 08:15 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by s3*ps2

Fixed boost leaks with new intercooler install. :P

Lol

intshadeofblue · 12-11-2012, 10:41 AM

Testing intercoolers objectively requires a four-groups design: before and after with the old intercooler, and before and after with the new intercooler. Without looking at all four data values, you either miss out on establishing a baseline for comparison, or you miss any performance changes. Either way, you'll have no way of telling how the new intercooler affects the way your setup runs. For $180 shipped, the CXRacing Direct Fit is probably the best value for the dollar - performance gains may be minimal (although in most pump gas applications, heat soak will be reduced enough to justify the expense), but at least you won't be out $600, nor will you experience a 5psi pressure drop, as you would in the event you had invested in a BFMIC that doesn't measure up. For big turbo pump gas applications, the CXRacing DF will probably not be satisfactory. I'm buying this intercooler for my bolt-on stock turbo and putting it in next month.

**BLUBYYOU** · 12-11-2012, 03:36 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by SoloSrt

Yeah, pretty much this.

You may not think you are losing pressure, but but you place a restriction like an EBay BFMIC in the way, it is a restriction. Period. Why? Because it does not flow the same amount of air as the stocker.

It's been years since I've seen it, but someone did an amazingly good flow vs efficiency test on all sorts of intercoolers. eBay crap ones, Spearco, stock, the gamut.

You boys need to find it. It's somewhere. I've read it and heed it because it is real bench flow numbers, and those don't lie.

Intercooler Shootout Results.

enginjoe · 12-11-2012, 04:12 PM

If you want an intercooler, get one. Not a crappy one, a good one and do it one time. It's been shown that you can do without or with just fine with the stock turbo. If you even think you will come close to maxing out the stock turbo or switching to a big turbo, get the BFMIC (a good one). If you are a chicken liver or feel the need to track your car, get one of the crash bar replacement thingys. Do not waste your money on a direct fit. Go big or forget it.

40 roll · 12-11-2012, 05:50 PM

Ill post a couple of datalogs on the CX racing direct fit on stock turbo.

intshadeofblue · 12-11-2012, 05:56 PM

By the way, don't misconstrue my input as hating on BFMICs - they're a great investment for big turbo pump gas cars or cars running very high boost in general. All I'm saying is that they're generally overkill for a stock turbo car that isn't maxed out, and not worth removing the crash bar for when perfectly adequate direct fit intercoolers are out there.

csx321 · 12-12-2012, 02:11 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by BLUBYYOU

Intercooler Shootout Results.

If I remember correctly, one problem with the shootout was that there were no cast end tank big intercoolers available to test. I have an ED Beast (which took a long time to finally find one for sale back when I bought it), and I have little doubt that its flow compares favorably with stock.

enginjoe · 12-12-2012, 02:37 PM

There was another thread where _Nick_ did a comparison on his stage 3 car with a stock and the AGP DFFMIC. While the AGP was better, the stock IC was ok. He wanted to keep the crash bar and some money, so he sold the DFFMIC.

jay05acr · 12-12-2012, 04:46 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by enginjoe

There was another thread where _Nick_ did a comparison on his stage 3 car with a stock and the AGP DFFMIC. While the AGP was better, the stock IC was ok. He wanted to keep the crash bar and some money, so he sold the DFFMIC.

Yea but wasn't he heat soaking like crazy at the track?

40 roll · 12-12-2012, 04:56 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by jay05acr

Yea but wasn't he heat soaking like crazy at the track?

When he did that datalog he was also pushing the turbo pretty hard and he even said in his thread that the test he performed was probly harder then what most people would push the DFMIC.

12-08-2012, 06:10 PM	#47 (permalink)
s3ps2 SRTforums Member* Join Date: Jul 2005 Member Number: 31038 Location: Gardner, KS Posts: 5,030	Quote: Originally Posted by Turbolag87 It was next day at the track lol. Can't get better that Fixed boost leaks with new intercooler install. :P __________________ 04 Neon SRT-4 Mopar S3, DSP, 888cc injectors, Dusters tune, Walbro 255 w/ S3 fuel system. NO rewire. e70 397whp/398tq 128k miles 99 Neon Sport Coupe MPG Daily 2.0 DOHC, 5spd

12-09-2012, 12:13 PM	#48 (permalink)
Rhunter SRTforums Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Member Number: 36794 Location: LOCASH Posts: 10,488	Quote: Originally Posted by SoloSrt Hhhmm, maybe I should get a BFMIC before a 3" TBE? Seriously through, I see that it isn't a "useless" mod on a stock turbo car. To each their own. I personally would do many other things first. Fucking THIS!!!!!!! __________________ Nunca Levanta! EL RALFO RACING.COM "A Lotta turbo, Small motor, and a GO pedal!!!"

12-09-2012, 01:35 PM	#50 (permalink)
glhs837 Premium Member (Lifetime) Join Date: Feb 2003 Member Number: 215 Location: So. Maryland Posts: 14,797	Quote: Originally Posted by jay05acr ^in all honesty I think direct fit's are worthless.... Crash bar in this piece of shit isn't going to save anyone Sorry, Jay, but you are wrong. The crash bar has a very important roll in the overall performance of the front crumple zone, and replacing it some welded up bar stock is nothing but using a piece of toilet paper on a machete cut. That thing is a seriously engineered piece of HSS whole purpose is twofold. One is to crush and absorb crash forces directly, lengthening the time the impact takes, but more importantly, it redirects that crash energy into the front subframes, who's job it is to stretch out that impact time and change sharp impacts over a short time into less peaky forces over more milliseconds, reducing injury overall and helping the airbags keep your ass alive. Why a crash beam is a good thing. __________________ I used to own one of the first SRT-4s sold, bought it new in Feb 2003, sold it Nov 2006 with 75K and Stage 3. Now I drive a 2006 SRT-8 Charger.

12-10-2012, 08:15 AM	#51 (permalink)
Turbolag87 SRTforums Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Member Number: 6491 Location: Pickering, Onta Posts: 5,534	Quote: Originally Posted by *s3ps2** Fixed boost leaks with new intercooler install. :P Lol __________________ F&F Stage III 47lb turbo +1 Race head, Race ported IM BC 2 cams Ext WGA Meth Injection 11.4@125mph (old times, stock head and cams) 26psi

12-11-2012, 10:41 AM	#52 (permalink)
intshadeofblue SRTforums Member Join Date: May 2011 Member Number: 84599 Location: East San Diego Posts: 130	Testing intercoolers objectively requires a four-groups design: before and after with the old intercooler, and before and after with the new intercooler. Without looking at all four data values, you either miss out on establishing a baseline for comparison, or you miss any performance changes. Either way, you'll have no way of telling how the new intercooler affects the way your setup runs. For $180 shipped, the CXRacing Direct Fit is probably the best value for the dollar - performance gains may be minimal (although in most pump gas applications, heat soak will be reduced enough to justify the expense), but at least you won't be out $600, nor will you experience a 5psi pressure drop, as you would in the event you had invested in a BFMIC that doesn't measure up. For big turbo pump gas applications, the CXRacing DF will probably not be satisfactory. I'm buying this intercooler for my bolt-on stock turbo and putting it in next month. __________________ '05 Silver - DD - 74xxx miles E85 stock turbo - traction in 3rd is overrated (Tune courtesy of the wizard known as Nigel/Turbo666) Looks like stock, goes like stink Hopefully getting 1/4 times before finishing grad school, but after getting slicks...

12-08-2012, 05:37 PM	#46 (permalink)
toofast82 SRTforums Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Member Number: 76443 Location: Tinley Park, IL Posts: 1,022	Having had the stock fmic, spearco dfmic and an mpx fmic on stock turbo, i'd just get a bigger fmic honestly if your going to run pump 91-93oct. If you plan on running e85 or water/meth all the time, then the stock fmic will be plenty fine as the e85 will keep combustion temps cooler than pump gas and the water/meth will cool the air right before it reaches the throttle body During 3rd and 4th gear pulls the air charge temps would go WAY above ambient on stock fmic. On spearco dfmic, they would still heat up about 35-45* above ambient, much better than the stock fmic though And on the mpx, temps stay pretty close to ambient, maybe 10* more on very hot days.

12-09-2012, 12:46 PM	#49 (permalink)
Lav SRTforums Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Member Number: 79804 Location: Houston Posts: 267	Quote: Originally Posted by SoloSrt Hhhmm, maybe I should get a BFMIC before a 3" TBE? Seriously through, I see that it isn't a "useless" mod on a stock turbo car. To each their own. I personally would do many other things first. Well I am still on stock turbo and other than going E85 or meth i think ive done just about all I can do on stock without going big turbo which I dont have the budget for right now . Tuned DSP Bigger injectors straight pipe exhaust blablablabla those are the main performance mods , im working on getting a return line set up and look into E85 since it seems like a better option over meth . As far as the IC goes seems everyone has had different results with BFMIC on stock turbos >__<

12-11-2012, 03:36 PM	#53 (permalink)
BLUBYYOU Premium Member (Lifetime) Join Date: Mar 2004 Member Number: 8826 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 1,112	Quote: Originally Posted by SoloSrt Yeah, pretty much this. You may not think you are losing pressure, but but you place a restriction like an EBay BFMIC in the way, it is a restriction. Period. Why? Because it does not flow the same amount of air as the stocker. It's been years since I've seen it, but someone did an amazingly good flow vs efficiency test on all sorts of intercoolers. eBay crap ones, Spearco, stock, the gamut. You boys need to find it. It's somewhere. I've read it and heed it because it is real bench flow numbers, and those don't lie. Intercooler Shootout Results. __________________ stage3 44lb+crane 14's+ACT clutch=

12-11-2012, 04:12 PM	#54 (permalink)
enginjoe SRTforums Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Member Number: 3797 Location: Tucson Posts: 5,050	If you want an intercooler, get one. Not a crappy one, a good one and do it one time. It's been shown that you can do without or with just fine with the stock turbo. If you even think you will come close to maxing out the stock turbo or switching to a big turbo, get the BFMIC (a good one). If you are a chicken liver or feel the need to track your car, get one of the crash bar replacement thingys. Do not waste your money on a direct fit. Go big or forget it. __________________ 2003 SRT-4 Silver, AGP GT3076R on E85 DD! Was 478hp/508tq ----> Now ??? 2002 Camaro SS M6, going N/A...

12-11-2012, 05:50 PM	#55 (permalink)
40 roll SRTforums Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Member Number: 88443 Location: houston Posts: 183	Ill post a couple of datalogs on the CX racing direct fit on stock turbo.

12-11-2012, 05:56 PM	#56 (permalink)
intshadeofblue SRTforums Member Join Date: May 2011 Member Number: 84599 Location: East San Diego Posts: 130	By the way, don't misconstrue my input as hating on BFMICs - they're a great investment for big turbo pump gas cars or cars running very high boost in general. All I'm saying is that they're generally overkill for a stock turbo car that isn't maxed out, and not worth removing the crash bar for when perfectly adequate direct fit intercoolers are out there. __________________ '05 Silver - DD - 74xxx miles E85 stock turbo - traction in 3rd is overrated (Tune courtesy of the wizard known as Nigel/Turbo666) Looks like stock, goes like stink Hopefully getting 1/4 times before finishing grad school, but after getting slicks...

12-12-2012, 02:11 PM	#57 (permalink)
csx321 SRTforums Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Member Number: 4534 Location: Southern IL Posts: 2,971	Quote: Originally Posted by BLUBYYOU Intercooler Shootout Results. If I remember correctly, one problem with the shootout was that there were no cast end tank big intercoolers available to test. I have an ED Beast (which took a long time to finally find one for sale back when I bought it), and I have little doubt that its flow compares favorably with stock. __________________ '04 SRT4, '87 Shelby CSX, '89 Shelby CSX, couple of others 2006 One Lap of America LER Media Crew 2009 Midwest SRT Nationals Attendee

12-12-2012, 02:37 PM	#58 (permalink)
enginjoe SRTforums Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Member Number: 3797 Location: Tucson Posts: 5,050	There was another thread where _Nick_ did a comparison on his stage 3 car with a stock and the AGP DFFMIC. While the AGP was better, the stock IC was ok. He wanted to keep the crash bar and some money, so he sold the DFFMIC. __________________ 2003 SRT-4 Silver, AGP GT3076R on E85 DD! Was 478hp/508tq ----> Now ??? 2002 Camaro SS M6, going N/A... Last edited by enginjoe; 12-12-2012 at 03:50 PM.

12-12-2012, 04:46 PM	#59 (permalink)
jay05acr SRTforums Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Member Number: 37744 Location: Houston Posts: 3,672	Quote: Originally Posted by enginjoe There was another thread where _Nick_ did a comparison on his stage 3 car with a stock and the AGP DFFMIC. While the AGP was better, the stock IC was ok. He wanted to keep the crash bar and some money, so he sold the DFFMIC. Yea but wasn't he heat soaking like crazy at the track? __________________ Go to wikyd-performance.com for all of your srt4 performance needs. Contact jtm0n3y or wonderer86 for more info http://www.srtforums.com/forums/f416...-parts-639326/ my for sale thread

12-12-2012, 04:56 PM	#60 (permalink)
40 roll SRTforums Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Member Number: 88443 Location: houston Posts: 183	Quote: Originally Posted by jay05acr Yea but wasn't he heat soaking like crazy at the track? When he did that datalog he was also pushing the turbo pretty hard and he even said in his thread that the test he performed was probly harder then what most people would push the DFMIC.

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