Horsepower gains~Race Fuel vs. E85 vs. W/M injection

[viper gts]

Quote: Originally Posted by dustin.b

Im gonna chime in here and just say that someone should developed an e85 proof sending unit. It can't be THAT difficult.

Maybe Tunerlover From what I have researched the PT GT senders have not failed...Wonder if they cross reference?

[enginjoe]

My '03 is going strong after 4 1/2 years.

[dustin.b]

Quote: Originally Posted by viper gts

Maybe Tunerlover From what I have researched the PT GT senders have not failed...Wonder if they cross reference?

Someone other than me test this...lol...im poor atm.

[viper gts]

Quote: Originally Posted by enginjoe

My '03 is going strong after 4 1/2 years.

Joe, Do you think thats the cure, the 03 sending unit? Mines a 03 too...Maybe I will luck out as well!

[enginjoe]

They are different and have held up better than the other newer years (I think I've heard of some dying, but not many). The previous several years senders are the same as well on the regular neons, so you can scavenge one of those if yours dies too.

[Boostinfamily]

Quote: Originally Posted by viper gts

Sooo from what your saying all of the power is from advanced timing and cooler charge temps. Does boost stay the same?

basically yes. also Ethanol actually burns FASTER then gasoline. so E85 burns FASTER then gasoline, but there is also gasoline in it burnign at the slower rate.

so theoretically, it has less total BTU, it burns faster, yet you can run MORE timing advance, but your also using 30% MORE fuel, so for the most EFFICIENT AND COMPLETE BURN you advance the timing giving a longer time for ignition to occur, which also makes the most efficient amount of pressure buildup occur LATER in the cycle.

i'm horrible at explaining it... maybe duster can put it into more understandable terms..

[underSRTarmor]

Quote: Originally Posted by Boostinfamily

basically yes. also Ethanol actually burns FASTER then gasoline. so E85 burns FASTER then gasoline, but there is also gasoline in it burnign at the slower rate.

so theoretically, it has less total BTU, it burns faster, yet you can run MORE timing advance, but your also using 30% MORE fuel, so for the most EFFICIENT AND COMPLETE BURN you advance the timing giving a longer time for ignition to occur, which also makes the most efficient amount of pressure buildup occur LATER in the cycle.

i'm horrible at explaining it... maybe duster can put it into more understandable terms..

isnt the rate of burn a direct reflection of octane rating?

also Flammability:

Flashpoint for gasoline= -45° F,
Flashpoint for pure ethanol= 55° F,
Flashpoint for E85= -20 to -4° F,

gasoline has a lower flash point

[Boostinfamily]

flashpoint, or point of ignition( or can be ignited) is different then flamespeed. unless that isn't what your saying, in which case i don't understand what your trying to say?

the info is out there for laminar flame speed, and E85 is faster and methanol faster still.

but the increase in flame speed isn't on par with the requirement of 30% more fuel. so higher flame speed but still takes longer to completely burn the 30% more fuel..

[underSRTarmor]

Quote: Originally Posted by Boostinfamily

flashpoint, or point of ignition( or can be ignited) is different then flamespeed. unless that isn't what your saying, in which case i don't understand what your trying to say?

the info is out there for laminar flame speed, and E85 is faster and methanol faster still.

but the increase in flame speed isn't on par with the requirement of 30% more fuel. so higher flame speed but still takes longer to completely burn the 30% more fuel..

im guessing here,

the more violent the fuel the faster it burns? maybe

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the reason you need 30% more is bc of btu to make the same btu as gas you need the 30% more of E.

now it is burning slower bc of more fuel to completely burn, hmm?? not sure.


def. not arguing with you man, just discussing....

[Boostinfamily]

it isn't burning slower LOL, you just have MORE to burn... i said i suck at explaining once already right?

[underSRTarmor]

Quote: Originally Posted by Boostinfamily

it isn't burning slower LOL, you just have MORE to burn... i said i suck at explaining once already right?

i will test this theory tonight.

ill put 20 cc of gas in a bowl and 20cc of E in a differernt bowl and time them..

[Boostinfamily]

OK.. here is the BTU's ,

Gasoline, 111,745 on the low side
Ethanol, 76,100
and E85, 81,800

with this we see that the percentage LESS for the fuels is as follows with the lowside BTU for gasoline being the constant.

Ethanol 32% less BTU

E85 27% less BTU

now the laminar flame speed of ethanol are 42CM/s and gasoline at abotu 30-31 CM/s we'll use 30 as the base


this gives us a 29% faster burn rate for E85.

but we have to look at total volume of fuel to compare flame speed to time taken for complete combustion now.

we also are forgettign the lower flashpoint of gas which may also be a contributing factor.. as when placed under pressure, ignition points raise so there are ALOT of variables. so timing advance may also be required due to the flash point increasing with pressure. coruse i may just be confusing it with boiling point.

but another interesting fact, AUTOIGNITION or the temperature at which it will ignite itself, for E is 363 degrees farenheit, but gas is only 280 at atmospheric pressure.

more variables.

[underSRTarmor]

Quote: Originally Posted by Boostinfamily

OK.. here is the BTU's ,

Gasoline, 111,745 on the low side
Ethanol, 76,100
and E85, 81,800

with this we see that the percentage LESS for the fuels is as follows with the lowside BTU for gasoline being the constant.

Ethanol 32% less BTU

E85 27% less BTU

now the laminar flame speed of ethanol are 42CM/s and gasoline at abotu 30-31 CM/s we'll use 30 as the base


this gives us a 29% faster burn rate for E85.

but we have to look at total volume of fuel to compare flame speed to time taken for complete combustion now.

we also are forgettign the lower flashpoint of gas which may also be a contributing factor.. as when placed under pressure, ignition points raise so there are ALOT of variables. so timing advance may also be required due to the flash point increasing with pressure. coruse i may just be confusing it with boiling point.

but another interesting fact, AUTOIGNITION or the temperature at which it will ignite itself, for E is 363 degrees farenheit, but gas is only 280 at atmospheric pressure.

more variables.

nice that is what i was looking for... A++++

thanks.

[viper gts]

Damn! gettin' to compliated for me...All I know however it works it works great! Do you guys think I should go with a FM WGA before I switch over? I have a Stock one now. (PCM boost)

[M0B00ST]

Quote from Wikipedia :
"There is no requirement to post octane on an E85 dispenser. If a retailer chooses to post octane, they should be aware that the often cited 105 octane is incorrect. This number was derived by using ethanol’s blending octane value in gasoline. This is not the proper way to calculate the octane of E85.
Ethanol’s true octane value should be used to calculate E85’s octane value. This results in an octane range of 94-96 (R+M)/2. These calculations have been confirmed by actual-octane engine tests."