Horsepower gains~Race Fuel vs. E85 vs. W/M injection - Page 3 - SRT Forums

**viper gts** · 11-18-2012, 02:13 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by underSRTarmor

I think e85 is less than 110 oct. at least pump 85. It more around 96 or so.

OK then if its only 96 octane than how can it trump 100 Turbo Blue?

**viper gts** · 11-18-2012, 02:21 PM

Which octane rating do you go by? the 104 0r 100? http://racingasoline.com/products/tu..._unleaded.html

**underSRTarmor** · 11-18-2012, 02:25 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by viper gts

OK then if its only 96 octane than how can it trump 100 Turbo Blue?

I said around 96. So like 95-100

It's properties. And the fact there more volume. 30% or so.

comatoast · 11-18-2012, 02:26 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by viper gts

OK then if its only 96 octane than how can it trump 100 Turbo Blue?

Simple.. Ethanol is not gasoline... different burning properties

**Zenkat** · 11-18-2012, 02:27 PM

I still dont fully understand the octane ratings. There's MON, RON, and the (R+M)/2 that you see at the pump (e85 being 94-96 under the R+M rule). C16 is 117 octane, yet pump e85 makes very similar power numbers. It really is something i want explained. If the octane rating numbers are important, then why is something rated so low, capable of so much timing advance and power?

I've googled the hell out of octane ratings and ethanol to try and understand why it acts like it does.

comatoast · 11-18-2012, 02:41 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Zenkat

I still dont fully understand the octane ratings. There's MON, RON, and the (R+M)/2 that you see at the pump (e85 being 94-96 under the R+M rule). C16 is 117 octane, yet pump e85 makes very similar power numbers. It really is something i want explained. If the octane rating numbers are important, then why is something rated so low, capable of so much timing advance and power?

I've googled the hell out of octane ratings and ethanol to try and understand why it acts like it does.

ethanol burns cooler and faster

**underSRTarmor** · 11-18-2012, 02:50 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by comatoast

ethanol burns cooler and faster

Slower.

Thus why u can lite it sooner. (Advance timing.) with out knock

comatoast · 11-18-2012, 03:14 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by underSRTarmor

Slower.

Thus why u can lite it sooner. (Advance timing.) with out knock

agh.. sorry.. I knew it sounded wrong

burks · 11-18-2012, 03:32 PM

Most reports put E85 around the 95-97 range for pump. Just what I've read.

Wikipedia used to explain it fairly well, whether it does now or not I am unsure. Haven't checked the page in months.

comatoast · 11-18-2012, 03:55 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by burks

Most reports put E85 around the 95-97 range for pump. Just what I've read.

Wikipedia used to explain it fairly well, whether it does now or not I am unsure. Haven't checked the page in months.

your kind of missing the point... When it comes to Octane ratings ethanol is in a different class than pump or race gas due to its burn rate

**viper gts** · 11-18-2012, 04:11 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by underSRTarmor

Slower.

Thus why u can lite it sooner. (Advance timing.) with out knock

If it burns slower why do you use 30% more fuel?

csufdrew · 11-18-2012, 06:43 PM

Viper- You need ~30% more because its ethanol....not gas. And E85 has excellent cooling properties + higher octane that allows it to compete power wise with C16.

I'm on my phone otherwise I'd write more...but if you wanna run 1 of the three options for Max power, run E85....it will make way more power over 100oct or pump/100% meth mix.

I would run E85 if it was convenient for me....its not so I run pump/meth with no problems and great power.

I've also run MS109 and C16 in both my SRT4 and WRX with no I'll effects.

**underSRTarmor** · 11-18-2012, 06:43 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by viper gts

If it burns slower why do you use 30% more fuel?

^^ good question.

a gallon of ethanol contains approx. 80,000 BTUs.
A gallons of unleaded regular contains about 119,000 BTUs.

So there its less energy per gallon. This is why it takes more fuel and u get less mph.

http://wiki.xtronics.com/index.php/Energy_density

csufdrew · 11-18-2012, 07:19 PM

If you want to run the highest octane unleaded race gas then your choice is Shell URT Advance with. R+M/2 of 110 but it costs about $15/gal compared to $3 something for E85...and E85 will make C16/Q16 like power.

rrodney24 · 11-18-2012, 10:37 PM

he can run that ftw purple stuff not sure what its called but its $33 dollars a gallon

11-18-2012, 02:25 PM	#33 (permalink)
underSRTarmor Premium Member (Lifetime) SRT of the Month Join Date: Aug 2005 Member Number: 32888 Location: N. La/ E. Tx Posts: 7,762	Quote: Originally Posted by viper gts OK then if its only 96 octane than how can it trump 100 Turbo Blue? I said around 96. So like 95-100 It's properties. And the fact there more volume. 30% or so. __________________ • MyBuild Thread • Duster360 Track Times List • PTE 5831 info • MAP Sensor info TUNED by DUSTER360 PTE 5831 11.19 @125.65 1.64 60ft 27 psi ^^^all clickable

11-18-2012, 02:26 PM	#34 (permalink)
comatoast SRTforums Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Member Number: 85196 Location: MN Posts: 564	Quote: Originally Posted by viper gts OK then if its only 96 octane than how can it trump 100 Turbo Blue? Simple.. Ethanol is not gasoline... different burning properties __________________ Turbo / TB - AGP Zeta 3.0 / 28 psi , AGP bfmic, Boomba 70mm tb Engine - Wiseco 8.8:1 pistons .020 over , eagle h-beam rods , king main and rod bearings , DCR crank strap kit, Head - FnF race ported exh ports , +2mm rev exh valves , BC springs and Ti retianers , BC stage 4 cams (280s) , Boomba cam gears, Fuel -* , 900cc fic inj , -6an feed and return lines , fuel pump rewire , bottle neck fix , Bosch 044 intank , aeromotive rrfpr , E85..

11-18-2012, 02:27 PM	#35 (permalink)
Zenkat Premium Member (Lifetime) Join Date: Apr 2004 Member Number: 10522 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 2,057	I still dont fully understand the octane ratings. There's MON, RON, and the (R+M)/2 that you see at the pump (e85 being 94-96 under the R+M rule). C16 is 117 octane, yet pump e85 makes very similar power numbers. It really is something i want explained. If the octane rating numbers are important, then why is something rated so low, capable of so much timing advance and power? I've googled the hell out of octane ratings and ethanol to try and understand why it acts like it does. __________________ 11.21@127.88

11-18-2012, 02:41 PM	#36 (permalink)
comatoast SRTforums Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Member Number: 85196 Location: MN Posts: 564	Quote: Originally Posted by Zenkat I still dont fully understand the octane ratings. There's MON, RON, and the (R+M)/2 that you see at the pump (e85 being 94-96 under the R+M rule). C16 is 117 octane, yet pump e85 makes very similar power numbers. It really is something i want explained. If the octane rating numbers are important, then why is something rated so low, capable of so much timing advance and power? I've googled the hell out of octane ratings and ethanol to try and understand why it acts like it does. ethanol burns cooler and faster __________________ Turbo / TB - AGP Zeta 3.0 / 28 psi , AGP bfmic, Boomba 70mm tb Engine - Wiseco 8.8:1 pistons .020 over , eagle h-beam rods , king main and rod bearings , DCR crank strap kit, Head - FnF race ported exh ports , +2mm rev exh valves , BC springs and Ti retianers , BC stage 4 cams (280s) , Boomba cam gears, Fuel -* , 900cc fic inj , -6an feed and return lines , fuel pump rewire , bottle neck fix , Bosch 044 intank , aeromotive rrfpr , E85..

11-18-2012, 02:50 PM	#37 (permalink)
underSRTarmor Premium Member (Lifetime) SRT of the Month Join Date: Aug 2005 Member Number: 32888 Location: N. La/ E. Tx Posts: 7,762	Quote: Originally Posted by comatoast ethanol burns cooler and faster Slower. Thus why u can lite it sooner. (Advance timing.) with out knock __________________ • MyBuild Thread • Duster360 Track Times List • PTE 5831 info • MAP Sensor info TUNED by DUSTER360 PTE 5831 11.19 @125.65 1.64 60ft 27 psi ^^^all clickable

11-18-2012, 02:13 PM	#31 (permalink)
viper gts Premium Member (Lifetime) Join Date: Apr 2011 Member Number: 83983 Location: vernon ct Posts: 635	Quote: Originally Posted by underSRTarmor I think e85 is less than 110 oct. at least pump 85. It more around 96 or so. OK then if its only 96 octane than how can it trump 100 Turbo Blue?

11-18-2012, 02:21 PM	#32 (permalink)
viper gts Premium Member (Lifetime) Join Date: Apr 2011 Member Number: 83983 Location: vernon ct Posts: 635	Which octane rating do you go by? the 104 0r 100? http://racingasoline.com/products/tu..._unleaded.html

11-18-2012, 03:14 PM	#38 (permalink)
comatoast SRTforums Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Member Number: 85196 Location: MN Posts: 564	Quote: Originally Posted by underSRTarmor Slower. Thus why u can lite it sooner. (Advance timing.) with out knock agh.. sorry.. I knew it sounded wrong __________________ Turbo / TB - AGP Zeta 3.0 / 28 psi , AGP bfmic, Boomba 70mm tb Engine - Wiseco 8.8:1 pistons .020 over , eagle h-beam rods , king main and rod bearings , DCR crank strap kit, Head - FnF race ported exh ports , +2mm rev exh valves , BC springs and Ti retianers , BC stage 4 cams (280s) , Boomba cam gears, Fuel -* , 900cc fic inj , -6an feed and return lines , fuel pump rewire , bottle neck fix , Bosch 044 intank , aeromotive rrfpr , E85..

11-18-2012, 03:32 PM	#39 (permalink)
burks SRTforums Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Member Number: 18423 Location: Mansfield, Ohio Posts: 1,084	Most reports put E85 around the 95-97 range for pump. Just what I've read. Wikipedia used to explain it fairly well, whether it does now or not I am unsure. Haven't checked the page in months.

11-18-2012, 03:55 PM	#40 (permalink)
comatoast SRTforums Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Member Number: 85196 Location: MN Posts: 564	Quote: Originally Posted by burks Most reports put E85 around the 95-97 range for pump. Just what I've read. Wikipedia used to explain it fairly well, whether it does now or not I am unsure. Haven't checked the page in months. your kind of missing the point... When it comes to Octane ratings ethanol is in a different class than pump or race gas due to its burn rate __________________ Turbo / TB - AGP Zeta 3.0 / 28 psi , AGP bfmic, Boomba 70mm tb Engine - Wiseco 8.8:1 pistons .020 over , eagle h-beam rods , king main and rod bearings , DCR crank strap kit, Head - FnF race ported exh ports , +2mm rev exh valves , BC springs and Ti retianers , BC stage 4 cams (280s) , Boomba cam gears, Fuel -* , 900cc fic inj , -6an feed and return lines , fuel pump rewire , bottle neck fix , Bosch 044 intank , aeromotive rrfpr , E85..

11-18-2012, 04:11 PM	#41 (permalink)
viper gts Premium Member (Lifetime) Join Date: Apr 2011 Member Number: 83983 Location: vernon ct Posts: 635	Quote: Originally Posted by underSRTarmor Slower. Thus why u can lite it sooner. (Advance timing.) with out knock If it burns slower why do you use 30% more fuel?

11-18-2012, 06:43 PM	#42 (permalink)
csufdrew SRTforums Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Member Number: 1843 Location: CA Posts: 1,909	Viper- You need ~30% more because its ethanol....not gas. And E85 has excellent cooling properties + higher octane that allows it to compete power wise with C16. I'm on my phone otherwise I'd write more...but if you wanna run 1 of the three options for Max power, run E85....it will make way more power over 100oct or pump/100% meth mix. I would run E85 if it was convenient for me....its not so I run pump/meth with no problems and great power. I've also run MS109 and C16 in both my SRT4 and WRX with no I'll effects. __________________ Stage 3 turbo / E85 / SCT PRP 12.133 @ 120.490 MPH

11-18-2012, 06:43 PM	#43 (permalink)
underSRTarmor Premium Member (Lifetime) SRT of the Month Join Date: Aug 2005 Member Number: 32888 Location: N. La/ E. Tx Posts: 7,762	Quote: Originally Posted by viper gts If it burns slower why do you use 30% more fuel? ^^ good question. a gallon of ethanol contains approx. 80,000 BTUs. A gallons of unleaded regular contains about 119,000 BTUs. So there its less energy per gallon. This is why it takes more fuel and u get less mph. http://wiki.xtronics.com/index.php/Energy_density __________________ • MyBuild Thread • Duster360 Track Times List • PTE 5831 info • MAP Sensor info TUNED by DUSTER360 PTE 5831 11.19 @125.65 1.64 60ft 27 psi ^^^all clickable Last edited by underSRTarmor; 11-18-2012 at 06:49 PM.

11-18-2012, 07:19 PM	#44 (permalink)
csufdrew SRTforums Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Member Number: 1843 Location: CA Posts: 1,909	If you want to run the highest octane unleaded race gas then your choice is Shell URT Advance with. R+M/2 of 110 but it costs about $15/gal compared to $3 something for E85...and E85 will make C16/Q16 like power. __________________ Stage 3 turbo / E85 / SCT PRP 12.133 @ 120.490 MPH

11-18-2012, 10:37 PM	#45 (permalink)
rrodney24 SRTforums Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Member Number: 79022 Location: Delray Beach Fl Posts: 622	he can run that ftw purple stuff not sure what its called but its $33 dollars a gallon __________________ Rare Rb1 radio for sale aux and 6 cd http://www.srtforums.com/forums/f418...-input-635972/

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