Horsepower gains~Race Fuel vs. E85 vs. W/M injection - Page 2 - SRT Forums

DKING246 · 11-17-2012, 04:12 PM

Here's a discussion email from Nigel when I was going to switch from e85 to 110.

"I don't quote power numbers due to the huge variables from dyno to dyno. But, I can tell you E85 will make more power then 110 easily. On larger turbo setup it can potentially allow you to make close to 100 more WHP, or even more on more extreme setups, on E85 compared to 110."

**viper gts** · 11-18-2012, 09:20 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by DKING246

Here's a discussion email from Nigel when I was going to switch from e85 to 110.

"I don't quote power numbers due to the huge variables from dyno to dyno. But, I can tell you E85 will make more power then 110 easily. On larger turbo setup it can potentially allow you to make close to 100 more WHP, or even more on more extreme setups, on E85 compared to 110."

Thats amazing! I thought 100 octane would easily blow away E85...

tunerlover3 · 11-18-2012, 09:25 AM

No...100 octane isnt shit when compared to other race gases.

E85 > 100 thats for sure.

**viper gts** · 11-18-2012, 12:37 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by tunerlover3

No...100 octane isnt shit when compared to other race gases.

E85 > 100 thats for sure.

Do you contribue your high torque numbers in your sig to the E85?

DKING246 · 11-18-2012, 01:06 PM

I think the ethanol fuels are the way to go power wise. If q16 made more power than say e98 for example wouldnt you think Nigel would be using it.....

93stang434 · 11-18-2012, 01:22 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by DKING246

I think the ethanol fuels are the way to go power wise. If q16 made more power than say e98 for example wouldnt you think Nigel would be using it.....

It all comes down to preference.Realtune seems to prefer gas as does DCR, Nigel seems to prefer ethanol.

**viper gts** · 11-18-2012, 01:34 PM

Are there any race fuels that are unleaded and over 100 octane?

Atrocitus · 11-18-2012, 01:38 PM

I heard about Shell URT (Unleaded Racing Technology?) about a year ago...I think its rated at about 110Oct and they claim it performs better than c16. But I don't know if any SRTs that have tried it. I was going to test it, but never got a chance to.

Posting on the go with a broken screen...ignore the typos.

tunerlover3 · 11-18-2012, 01:42 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by viper gts

Do you contribue your high torque numbers in your sig to the E85?

I would say yes....

Quote: Originally Posted by DKING246

I think the ethanol fuels are the way to go power wise. If q16 made more power than say e98 for example wouldnt you think Nigel would be using it.....

Quote: Originally Posted by 93stang434

It all comes down to preference.Realtune seems to prefer gas as does DCR, Nigel seems to prefer ethanol.

^ This. It comes down to price vs power too. Q16 is EXPENSIVE compared to say E98 or race grade E85. Some people like to stick to racing fuel, some like to run ethanol.

Quote: Originally Posted by viper gts

Are there any race fuels that are unleaded and over 100 octane?

Not really. Ive heard of some 110 unleaded but I never see it at pumps.

csufdrew · 11-18-2012, 01:45 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by viper gts

Are there any race fuels that are unleaded and over 100 octane?

VP MS109 has a motor octane of 101...motor octane is what is most important

**underSRTarmor** · 11-18-2012, 01:48 PM

Thing is. Most e85 users are using pump e85. Which isn't always 85%.

I've heard

Q16
C16
E85

Hands down for the cost is e85.

tunerlover3 · 11-18-2012, 01:51 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by csufdrew

VP MS109 has a motor octane of 101...motor octane is what is most important

But thats also oxygenated which most injectors arent rated for.

Rhunter · 11-18-2012, 01:52 PM

1st off you cannot compare 100 octane to E85. In general terms e85 = 110 oct.

E85 has an advantage over 110 oct because it seems to allow more aggressive timing advances than 110.

THE BIGGEST ADVANTAGE OF E85 IS THE PRICE!! It's hard to beat $3:50 a gal compared to whatever the price of 110 oct race fuel is now-a-days.

My car picked up 30whp just from switching from 93 octane to E85. NOTHING else was changed.

The biggest disadvantage of water/meth injection is that you need yet another mechanical device to depend on. Also, your mixture needs to stay consistent to get consistent results.

In the end, if price is no issue than run C16!!!

**underSRTarmor** · 11-18-2012, 01:55 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Rhunter

1st off you cannot compare 100 octane to E85. In general terms e85 = 110 oct.

E85 has an advantage over 110 oct because it seems to allow more aggressive timing advances than 110.

THE BIGGEST ADVANTAGE OF E85 IS THE PRICE!! It's hard to beat $3:50 a gal compared to whatever the price of 110 oct race fuel is now-a-days.

My car picked up 30whp just from switching from 93 octane to E85. NOTHING else was changed.

The biggest disadvantage of water/meth injection is that you need yet another mechanical device to depend on. Also, your mixture needs to stay consistent to get consistent results.

In the end, if price is no issue than run C16!!!

I think e85 is less than 110 oct. at least pump 85. It more around 96 or so.

Rhunter · 11-18-2012, 01:57 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by underSRTarmor

I think e85 is less than 110 oct. at least pump 85. It more around 96 or so.

Could be. I've always read that it's @ 110 oct. But you make a good point about the consistency of E85 and as we both know, the winter blend is completely different than the summer stuff.

11-17-2012, 04:12 PM	#16 (permalink)
DKING246 SRTforums Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Member Number: 82074 Location: Bakersfield Posts: 699	Here's a discussion email from Nigel when I was going to switch from e85 to 110. "I don't quote power numbers due to the huge variables from dyno to dyno. But, I can tell you E85 will make more power then 110 easily. On larger turbo setup it can potentially allow you to make close to 100 more WHP, or even more on more extreme setups, on E85 compared to 110." __________________ Mopar S3-E85- Last edited by DKING246; 11-17-2012 at 04:19 PM.

11-18-2012, 09:25 AM	#18 (permalink)
tunerlover3 Fresh Meat Moderator Join Date: Dec 2009 Member Number: 76568 Location: Chicago Posts: 16,617	No...100 octane isnt shit when compared to other race gases. E85 > 100 thats for sure. __________________ Diablo CMR tuner ~Dan~ 2004 Black Neon SRT4: E85 stock turbo SOLD 310HP 436TQ 2004 Eblue Neon SRT4: E85 5558 XXXHP XXXTQ

11-18-2012, 01:06 PM	#20 (permalink)
DKING246 SRTforums Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Member Number: 82074 Location: Bakersfield Posts: 699	I think the ethanol fuels are the way to go power wise. If q16 made more power than say e98 for example wouldnt you think Nigel would be using it..... __________________ Mopar S3-E85-

11-18-2012, 01:22 PM	#21 (permalink)
93stang434 SRTforums Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Member Number: 49690 Location: Ft. Wayne,IN Posts: 2,242	Quote: Originally Posted by DKING246 I think the ethanol fuels are the way to go power wise. If q16 made more power than say e98 for example wouldnt you think Nigel would be using it..... It all comes down to preference.Realtune seems to prefer gas as does DCR, Nigel seems to prefer ethanol. __________________ Built short block,cncport.com head,BW s256 and and some other stuff=Aiming for the 10's on E85 BC co's,Hotchkiss sways,Prothane bushings,Pwerks strut bars,Mopar tension struts

11-18-2012, 01:38 PM	#23 (permalink)
Atrocitus FS PIC NAZI Join Date: May 2006 Member Number: 42341 Location: Temecula, CA Posts: 3,535	I heard about Shell URT (Unleaded Racing Technology?) about a year ago...I think its rated at about 110Oct and they claim it performs better than c16. But I don't know if any SRTs that have tried it. I was going to test it, but never got a chance to. Posting on the go with a broken screen...ignore the typos. __________________ 2004 Candy white/Audi black -current 2013 Sunset Red Victory Judge

11-18-2012, 09:20 AM	#17 (permalink)
viper gts Premium Member (Lifetime) Join Date: Apr 2011 Member Number: 83983 Location: vernon ct Posts: 633	Quote: Originally Posted by DKING246 Here's a discussion email from Nigel when I was going to switch from e85 to 110. "I don't quote power numbers due to the huge variables from dyno to dyno. But, I can tell you E85 will make more power then 110 easily. On larger turbo setup it can potentially allow you to make close to 100 more WHP, or even more on more extreme setups, on E85 compared to 110." Thats amazing! I thought 100 octane would easily blow away E85...

11-18-2012, 12:37 PM	#19 (permalink)
viper gts Premium Member (Lifetime) Join Date: Apr 2011 Member Number: 83983 Location: vernon ct Posts: 633	Quote: Originally Posted by tunerlover3 No...100 octane isnt shit when compared to other race gases. E85 > 100 thats for sure. Do you contribue your high torque numbers in your sig to the E85?

11-18-2012, 01:34 PM	#22 (permalink)
viper gts Premium Member (Lifetime) Join Date: Apr 2011 Member Number: 83983 Location: vernon ct Posts: 633	Are there any race fuels that are unleaded and over 100 octane?

11-18-2012, 01:42 PM	#24 (permalink)
tunerlover3 Fresh Meat Moderator Join Date: Dec 2009 Member Number: 76568 Location: Chicago Posts: 16,617	Quote: Originally Posted by viper gts Do you contribue your high torque numbers in your sig to the E85? I would say yes.... Quote: Originally Posted by DKING246 I think the ethanol fuels are the way to go power wise. If q16 made more power than say e98 for example wouldnt you think Nigel would be using it..... Quote: Originally Posted by 93stang434 It all comes down to preference.Realtune seems to prefer gas as does DCR, Nigel seems to prefer ethanol. ^ This. It comes down to price vs power too. Q16 is EXPENSIVE compared to say E98 or race grade E85. Some people like to stick to racing fuel, some like to run ethanol. Quote: Originally Posted by viper gts Are there any race fuels that are unleaded and over 100 octane? Not really. Ive heard of some 110 unleaded but I never see it at pumps. __________________ Diablo CMR tuner ~Dan~ 2004 Black Neon SRT4: E85 stock turbo SOLD 310HP 436TQ 2004 Eblue Neon SRT4: E85 5558 XXXHP XXXTQ

11-18-2012, 01:45 PM	#25 (permalink)
csufdrew SRTforums Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Member Number: 1843 Location: CA Posts: 1,909	Quote: Originally Posted by viper gts Are there any race fuels that are unleaded and over 100 octane? VP MS109 has a motor octane of 101...motor octane is what is most important __________________ Stage 3 turbo / E85 / SCT PRP 12.133 @ 120.490 MPH

11-18-2012, 01:48 PM	#26 (permalink)
underSRTarmor Premium Member (Lifetime) SRT of the Month Join Date: Aug 2005 Member Number: 32888 Location: N. La/ E. Tx Posts: 7,744	Thing is. Most e85 users are using pump e85. Which isn't always 85%. I've heard Q16 C16 E85 Hands down for the cost is e85. __________________ • MyBuild Thread • Duster360 Track Times List • PTE 5831 info • MAP Sensor info TUNED by DUSTER360 PTE 5831 11.19 @125.65 1.64 60ft 27 psi ^^^all clickable

11-18-2012, 01:51 PM	#27 (permalink)
tunerlover3 Fresh Meat Moderator Join Date: Dec 2009 Member Number: 76568 Location: Chicago Posts: 16,617	Quote: Originally Posted by csufdrew VP MS109 has a motor octane of 101...motor octane is what is most important But thats also oxygenated which most injectors arent rated for. __________________ Diablo CMR tuner ~Dan~ 2004 Black Neon SRT4: E85 stock turbo SOLD 310HP 436TQ 2004 Eblue Neon SRT4: E85 5558 XXXHP XXXTQ

11-18-2012, 01:52 PM	#28 (permalink)
Rhunter SRTforums Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Member Number: 36794 Location: LOCASH Posts: 10,488	1st off you cannot compare 100 octane to E85. In general terms e85 = 110 oct. E85 has an advantage over 110 oct because it seems to allow more aggressive timing advances than 110. THE BIGGEST ADVANTAGE OF E85 IS THE PRICE!! It's hard to beat $3:50 a gal compared to whatever the price of 110 oct race fuel is now-a-days. My car picked up 30whp just from switching from 93 octane to E85. NOTHING else was changed. The biggest disadvantage of water/meth injection is that you need yet another mechanical device to depend on. Also, your mixture needs to stay consistent to get consistent results. In the end, if price is no issue than run C16!!! __________________ Nunca Levanta! EL RALFO RACING.COM "A Lotta turbo, Small motor, and a GO pedal!!!"

11-18-2012, 01:55 PM	#29 (permalink)
underSRTarmor Premium Member (Lifetime) SRT of the Month Join Date: Aug 2005 Member Number: 32888 Location: N. La/ E. Tx Posts: 7,744	Quote: Originally Posted by Rhunter 1st off you cannot compare 100 octane to E85. In general terms e85 = 110 oct. E85 has an advantage over 110 oct because it seems to allow more aggressive timing advances than 110. THE BIGGEST ADVANTAGE OF E85 IS THE PRICE!! It's hard to beat $3:50 a gal compared to whatever the price of 110 oct race fuel is now-a-days. My car picked up 30whp just from switching from 93 octane to E85. NOTHING else was changed. The biggest disadvantage of water/meth injection is that you need yet another mechanical device to depend on. Also, your mixture needs to stay consistent to get consistent results. In the end, if price is no issue than run C16!!! I think e85 is less than 110 oct. at least pump 85. It more around 96 or so. __________________ • MyBuild Thread • Duster360 Track Times List • PTE 5831 info • MAP Sensor info TUNED by DUSTER360 PTE 5831 11.19 @125.65 1.64 60ft 27 psi ^^^all clickable

11-18-2012, 01:57 PM	#30 (permalink)
Rhunter SRTforums Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Member Number: 36794 Location: LOCASH Posts: 10,488	Quote: Originally Posted by underSRTarmor I think e85 is less than 110 oct. at least pump 85. It more around 96 or so. Could be. I've always read that it's @ 110 oct. But you make a good point about the consistency of E85 and as we both know, the winter blend is completely different than the summer stuff. __________________ Nunca Levanta! EL RALFO RACING.COM "A Lotta turbo, Small motor, and a GO pedal!!!"

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