Big wheel stage 3 dyno on e85 - Page 4 - SRT Forums

triangles · 02-14-2013, 11:13 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by Rhunter

The TB will not help much if any. The stock head is still a major restriction.

Really? I figured it would help alittle and atleast improve mpg while i was cruising .I know the head is pretty bad. The shop I use doesn't have anytime to do what I want atm and taxes still haven't come back so I can get my rev valves, springs and forged internals

csufdrew · 02-14-2013, 11:52 PM

I love when people say our heads are "bad"...cause making 450whp out of a 2.4L 4 banger with a T05 hot side and a 44-47lb wheel upgrade is soooooo terrible.

Are there better stock heads out there? Obviously....but we all drive 8-10 year old $19k Dodge Neon. Come on people.

SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using AutoGuide.C

triangles · 02-15-2013, 12:55 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by csufdrew

I love when people say our heads are "bad"...cause making 450whp out of a 2.4L 4 banger with a T05 hot side and a 44-47lb wheel upgrade is soooooo terrible.

Are there better stock heads out there? Obviously....but we all drive 8-10 year old $19k Dodge Neon. Come on people.

SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using AutoGuide.C

What I meant to say the flow design is bad. But yes for 430 HP with just a turbo and basic stuff is damn good. there is always improvements on flow you can do to our heads to breath easier and increase power and make it more efficient. With no other options that i know of to bolt a head on that has better properties . We are limmitted to either stay stock or go bigger and better as a way to increase power. To say its a bad part is not right. I should have worded it diffently.

ninjaboy76 · 02-15-2013, 01:54 AM

Damn that's pretty impressive power for a 4Xlb turbo. Did you ever get a dyno graph?

mole' · 02-15-2013, 02:49 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by Rhunter

The TB will not help much if any. The stock head is still a major restriction.

I'm a believer in a bigger TB. Don't you remember back in the day when I did a before and after dyno on my car with a 55mm Tb and ported itm. Only mods on my car were an aem cai and mopar rice plate. I picked up 12hp and 20tq peak but like 30hp in the powerband.

Quote: Originally Posted by triangles

Really? I figured it would help alittle and atleast improve mpg while i was cruising .I know the head is pretty bad. The shop I use doesn't have anytime to do what I want atm and taxes still haven't come back so I can get my rev valves, springs and forged internals

I say try the TB out. See if the guy will let you do a before and after.
Don't forget to port match the opening of the itm to 62mm.

Quote: Originally Posted by csufdrew

I love when people say our heads are "bad"...cause making 450whp out of a 2.4L 4 banger with a T05 hot side and a 44-47lb wheel upgrade is soooooo terrible.

Are there better stock heads out there? Obviously....but we all drive 8-10 year old $19k Dodge Neon. Come on people.

SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using AutoGuide.C

our heads do suck man. We are just lucky we have a big 4banger.

Quote: Originally Posted by ninjaboy76

Damn that's pretty impressive power for a 4Xlb turbo. Did you ever get a dyno graph?

I can do this same upgrade for anyone with a stage 3 kit.

lVlemphizStylez · 02-15-2013, 05:01 AM

yea stock head blows...car easily picks up 40-50 whp on same boost with a nice head. Also makes torque sooner resulting in a nastier powerband. Head work is night and day and worth it's weight in gold. You can keep your torque down (maybe save your motor) and bring the WHP up...faster car that's stressed less

You want to see nice heads from a factory...stroll over to Honda (even from the 90s they had better heads than our cars today..a stock k20 on the flowbench might look like our Pro Mod DCR head

)

Rhunter · 02-15-2013, 05:32 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by mole'

I'm a believer in a bigger TB. Don't you remember back in the day when I did a before and after dyno on my car with a 55mm Tb and ported itm. Only mods on my car were an aem cai and mopar rice plate. I picked up 12hp and 20tq peak but like 30hp in the powerband.

I don't recall you picking up 12. Maybe I didn't hear it correctly, or maybe I'm just old, I recall not being impressed with the results and I would of been impressed with 12whp. I'm not doubting your claim, I'm just going off of a 6/7 year old memory.

If it were important we could ask Brandon or Jose, but It's not important to me.

So triangles, II stand corrected. Go for the new TB! After all it's your dime. I personally would put that money towards getting the head ported.

Rhunter · 02-15-2013, 05:38 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by csufdrew

I love when people say our heads are "bad"...cause making 450whp out of a 2.4L 4 banger with a T05 hot side and a 44-47lb wheel upgrade is soooooo terrible.

Are there better stock heads out there? Obviously....but we all drive 8-10 year old $19k Dodge Neon. Come on people.

SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using AutoGuide.C

I say this because it's true!!! don't take my word for it, ask they guys who have really fast cars.

lVlemphizStylez · 02-15-2013, 05:46 AM

Reason it makes 450 whp is because you crammed everything in....look at the torque once you start going up in boost on most stock head cars. Trend is it makes crap loads of torque at first; head chokes it off and you squeeze by 450-480 whp while making 500+ wtq. Stock head cars drop torque off like a rock after 6k. I lose about 50-60 wtq by the time I hit 7k; before head work that number was more like 100 wtq. You can look at any big turbo dyno and see similar trend all over the place (unless they have super big laggy turbo). Any car can spike torque down low...an efficient motor will HOLD that torque; which our car does NOT do very well

Not unusual to see 500 wtq at 4k rpms and by the time you hit 6200 you're making like 380 wtq..

Enginejoe had the typical high 400 whp stock head SRT...look at that torque at redline..

_Nick_ · 02-15-2013, 09:05 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by lVlemphizStylez

yea stock head blows...car easily picks up 40-50 whp on same boost with a nice head. Also makes torque sooner resulting in a nastier powerband. Head work is night and day and worth it's weight in gold. You can keep your torque down (maybe save your motor) and bring the WHP up...faster car that's stressed less

You want to see nice heads from a factory...stroll over to Honda (even from the 90s they had better heads than our cars today..a stock k20 on the flowbench might look like our Pro Mod DCR head

)

Great to know

_Nick_ · 02-15-2013, 11:24 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by Rhunter

But Nick! That's not a good thing! That fast spool is most likely a bi-product of back pressure from a crappy manifold design. Hitting boost that quick IS costing you!

No free lunch my friend.

I was hoping it was the gain feature in the boost box

The Dude2200 · 02-15-2013, 11:27 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by lVlemphizStylez

yea stock head blows...car easily picks up 40-50 whp on same boost with a nice head. Also makes torque sooner resulting in a nastier powerband. Head work is night and day and worth it's weight in gold. You can keep your torque down (maybe save your motor) and bring the WHP up...faster car that's stressed less

You want to see nice heads from a factory...stroll over to Honda (even from the 90s they had better heads than our cars today..a stock k20 on the flowbench might look like our Pro Mod DCR head

)

That is the trutttthhh

tkilla · 02-15-2013, 12:42 PM

nice dyno numbers.

are you the car from modesto with mole's upgrade that raced srt101 (chris) evo over the weekend?

E85 evo vs E85 srt - YouTube

khaoSrt4 · 02-15-2013, 01:10 PM

dude these are sick numbers and a sleeper im sure of just pop the hood and say see stock turbo lol

TRPKelly · 02-15-2013, 01:20 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by tkilla

nice dyno numbers.

are you the car from modesto with mole's upgrade that raced srt101 (chris) evo over the weekend?

E85 evo vs E85 srt - YouTube

Sounded like him talking, not 100% tho

SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using AutoGuide.C

02-14-2013, 11:13 PM	#46 (permalink)
triangles SRTforums Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Member Number: 80981 Location: riverbank ca Posts: 594	Re: Big wheel stage 3 dyno on e85 Quote: Originally Posted by Rhunter The TB will not help much if any. The stock head is still a major restriction. Really? I figured it would help alittle and atleast improve mpg while i was cruising .I know the head is pretty bad. The shop I use doesn't have anytime to do what I want atm and taxes still haven't come back so I can get my rev valves, springs and forged internals __________________ 05 flame red bw Stage 3 47lb 20g By Mole' *daily driven* E85 Last edited by triangles; 02-14-2013 at 11:18 PM.

02-14-2013, 11:52 PM	#47 (permalink)
csufdrew SRTforums Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Member Number: 1843 Location: CA Posts: 1,909	Re: Big wheel stage 3 dyno on e85 I love when people say our heads are "bad"...cause making 450whp out of a 2.4L 4 banger with a T05 hot side and a 44-47lb wheel upgrade is soooooo terrible. Are there better stock heads out there? Obviously....but we all drive 8-10 year old $19k Dodge Neon. Come on people. SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using AutoGuide.C __________________ Stage 3 turbo / E85 / SCT PRP 12.133 @ 120.490 MPH

02-15-2013, 12:55 AM	#48 (permalink)
triangles SRTforums Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Member Number: 80981 Location: riverbank ca Posts: 594	Re: Big wheel stage 3 dyno on e85 Quote: Originally Posted by csufdrew I love when people say our heads are "bad"...cause making 450whp out of a 2.4L 4 banger with a T05 hot side and a 44-47lb wheel upgrade is soooooo terrible. Are there better stock heads out there? Obviously....but we all drive 8-10 year old $19k Dodge Neon. Come on people. SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using AutoGuide.C What I meant to say the flow design is bad. But yes for 430 HP with just a turbo and basic stuff is damn good. there is always improvements on flow you can do to our heads to breath easier and increase power and make it more efficient. With no other options that i know of to bolt a head on that has better properties . We are limmitted to either stay stock or go bigger and better as a way to increase power. To say its a bad part is not right. I should have worded it diffently. __________________ 05 flame red bw Stage 3 47lb 20g By Mole' *daily driven* E85

02-15-2013, 02:49 AM	#50 (permalink)
mole' Supporting Vendor (Gold) Join Date: Sep 2004 Member Number: 17477 Location: SoCal (760/661) Posts: 50,870	Quote: Originally Posted by Rhunter The TB will not help much if any. The stock head is still a major restriction. I'm a believer in a bigger TB. Don't you remember back in the day when I did a before and after dyno on my car with a 55mm Tb and ported itm. Only mods on my car were an aem cai and mopar rice plate. I picked up 12hp and 20tq peak but like 30hp in the powerband. Quote: Originally Posted by triangles Really? I figured it would help alittle and atleast improve mpg while i was cruising .I know the head is pretty bad. The shop I use doesn't have anytime to do what I want atm and taxes still haven't come back so I can get my rev valves, springs and forged internals I say try the TB out. See if the guy will let you do a before and after. Don't forget to port match the opening of the itm to 62mm. Quote: Originally Posted by csufdrew I love when people say our heads are "bad"...cause making 450whp out of a 2.4L 4 banger with a T05 hot side and a 44-47lb wheel upgrade is soooooo terrible. Are there better stock heads out there? Obviously....but we all drive 8-10 year old $19k Dodge Neon. Come on people. SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using AutoGuide.C our heads do suck man. We are just lucky we have a big 4banger. Quote: Originally Posted by ninjaboy76 Damn that's pretty impressive power for a 4Xlb turbo. Did you ever get a dyno graph? I can do this same upgrade for anyone with a stage 3 kit. __________________ DCR spiced and Tuned by the Mad Scientist team Jay@N2MB and Nigel@BST (turbo666) Mole' (STOCK TURBO) 16g BWS setup #s 380hp+ and 444tq+ 11.7@122 1.71 60ft PM/email me for all your 16g/18g/20g BWS setup and DCR needs...... Darrell Cox Racing on facebook, 1-517-369-9636 10am-5pm est webstore... DCRSRT.com. email me at mole79@aol.com .

02-15-2013, 05:01 AM	#51 (permalink)
lVlemphizStylez SRTforums Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Member Number: 51111 Location: Miami/Tally Posts: 4,632	yea stock head blows...car easily picks up 40-50 whp on same boost with a nice head. Also makes torque sooner resulting in a nastier powerband. Head work is night and day and worth it's weight in gold. You can keep your torque down (maybe save your motor) and bring the WHP up...faster car that's stressed less You want to see nice heads from a factory...stroll over to Honda (even from the 90s they had better heads than our cars today..a stock k20 on the flowbench might look like our Pro Mod DCR head ) __________________ go ahead...change yours too now; again Last edited by lVlemphizStylez; 02-15-2013 at 05:05 AM.

02-15-2013, 01:54 AM	#49 (permalink)
ninjaboy76 SRTforums Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Member Number: 85809 Location: Wichita, KS Posts: 12	Damn that's pretty impressive power for a 4Xlb turbo. Did you ever get a dyno graph?

02-15-2013, 05:32 AM	#52 (permalink)
Rhunter SRTforums Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Member Number: 36794 Location: LOCASH Posts: 10,490	Quote: Originally Posted by mole' I'm a believer in a bigger TB. Don't you remember back in the day when I did a before and after dyno on my car with a 55mm Tb and ported itm. Only mods on my car were an aem cai and mopar rice plate. I picked up 12hp and 20tq peak but like 30hp in the powerband. I don't recall you picking up 12. Maybe I didn't hear it correctly, or maybe I'm just old, I recall not being impressed with the results and I would of been impressed with 12whp. I'm not doubting your claim, I'm just going off of a 6/7 year old memory. If it were important we could ask Brandon or Jose, but It's not important to me. So triangles, II stand corrected. Go for the new TB! After all it's your dime. I personally would put that money towards getting the head ported. __________________ Nunca Levanta! EL RALFO RACING.COM "A Lotta turbo, Small motor, and a GO pedal!!!"

02-15-2013, 05:38 AM	#53 (permalink)
Rhunter SRTforums Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Member Number: 36794 Location: LOCASH Posts: 10,490	Quote: Originally Posted by csufdrew I love when people say our heads are "bad"...cause making 450whp out of a 2.4L 4 banger with a T05 hot side and a 44-47lb wheel upgrade is soooooo terrible. Are there better stock heads out there? Obviously....but we all drive 8-10 year old $19k Dodge Neon. Come on people. SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using AutoGuide.C I say this because it's true!!! don't take my word for it, ask they guys who have really fast cars. __________________ Nunca Levanta! EL RALFO RACING.COM "A Lotta turbo, Small motor, and a GO pedal!!!"

02-15-2013, 05:46 AM	#54 (permalink)
lVlemphizStylez SRTforums Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Member Number: 51111 Location: Miami/Tally Posts: 4,632	Reason it makes 450 whp is because you crammed everything in....look at the torque once you start going up in boost on most stock head cars. Trend is it makes crap loads of torque at first; head chokes it off and you squeeze by 450-480 whp while making 500+ wtq. Stock head cars drop torque off like a rock after 6k. I lose about 50-60 wtq by the time I hit 7k; before head work that number was more like 100 wtq. You can look at any big turbo dyno and see similar trend all over the place (unless they have super big laggy turbo). Any car can spike torque down low...an efficient motor will HOLD that torque; which our car does NOT do very well Not unusual to see 500 wtq at 4k rpms and by the time you hit 6200 you're making like 380 wtq.. Enginejoe had the typical high 400 whp stock head SRT...look at that torque at redline.. __________________ go ahead...change yours too now; again Last edited by lVlemphizStylez; 02-15-2013 at 05:49 AM.

02-15-2013, 09:05 AM	#55 (permalink)
_Nick_ Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Member Number: 8941 Location: Camarillo, CA Posts: 7,089	Quote: Originally Posted by lVlemphizStylez yea stock head blows...car easily picks up 40-50 whp on same boost with a nice head. Also makes torque sooner resulting in a nastier powerband. Head work is night and day and worth it's weight in gold. You can keep your torque down (maybe save your motor) and bring the WHP up...faster car that's stressed less You want to see nice heads from a factory...stroll over to Honda (even from the 90s they had better heads than our cars today..a stock k20 on the flowbench might look like our Pro Mod DCR head ) Great to know __________________ 20G Stage 3 on E85: New data:384 hp 411 tq "Maybe I should just stick to bolt-ons." -Hitler I don't really want to wrench anymore. I'd rather detail.

02-15-2013, 11:24 AM	#56 (permalink)
_Nick_ Premium Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Member Number: 8941 Location: Camarillo, CA Posts: 7,089	Quote: Originally Posted by Rhunter But Nick! That's not a good thing! That fast spool is most likely a bi-product of back pressure from a crappy manifold design. Hitting boost that quick IS costing you! No free lunch my friend. I was hoping it was the gain feature in the boost box __________________ 20G Stage 3 on E85: New data:384 hp 411 tq "Maybe I should just stick to bolt-ons." -Hitler I don't really want to wrench anymore. I'd rather detail.

02-15-2013, 11:27 AM	#57 (permalink)
The Dude2200 SRTforums Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Member Number: 87965 Location: Hinsdale, MA Posts: 202	Quote: Originally Posted by lVlemphizStylez yea stock head blows...car easily picks up 40-50 whp on same boost with a nice head. Also makes torque sooner resulting in a nastier powerband. Head work is night and day and worth it's weight in gold. You can keep your torque down (maybe save your motor) and bring the WHP up...faster car that's stressed less You want to see nice heads from a factory...stroll over to Honda (even from the 90s they had better heads than our cars today..a stock k20 on the flowbench might look like our Pro Mod DCR head ) That is the trutttthhh __________________

02-15-2013, 12:42 PM	#58 (permalink)
tkilla SRTforums Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Member Number: 48999 Location: Antioch Posts: 278	nice dyno numbers. are you the car from modesto with mole's upgrade that raced srt101 (chris) evo over the weekend? E85 evo vs E85 srt - YouTube __________________ Norcal Built, Rage-tek and Reed32 tuned Look up tkilla srt on youtube for my vids.. Old build:23psi dsp 11.4@121 fully built AGP 255 w/.48ar and e85 New build: 6xmm turbo New set up stronger build new times coming soon

02-15-2013, 01:10 PM	#59 (permalink)
khaoSrt4 SRTforums Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Member Number: 62825 Location: Bfe east mesa Posts: 827	dude these are sick numbers and a sleeper im sure of just pop the hood and say see stock turbo lol

02-15-2013, 01:20 PM	#60 (permalink)
TRPKelly SRTforums Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Member Number: 90192 Location: Oakdale, CA Posts: 161	Re: Big wheel stage 3 dyno on e85 Quote: Originally Posted by tkilla nice dyno numbers. are you the car from modesto with mole's upgrade that raced srt101 (chris) evo over the weekend? E85 evo vs E85 srt - YouTube Sounded like him talking, not 100% tho SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using AutoGuide.C

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