$20 Stock WGA Spring Upgrade - Page 2 - SRT Forums

bast525 · 03-07-2006, 12:07 AM

two questions:

1. How bad is the PTB? compared to aftermarket WGA? Common sense dictates it would be just as bad as it would be with an MBC.

2. are you 100% sure this mod is not detectable by a nosy dealer service tech? Don't be so sure. Did you do ANY detectable damage to your upper heat shield when you removed it to get the WGA out? Most people agree it's almost impossible to get the shield out w/o some sort of damage or bending. Did you leave any noticeable marks on around the edge of the WGA canister? Prying the edge up then clamping it back down as you described sounds like it would leave some kinda marking on the lip. Even the two 12mm bolts that attach the WGA to the compressor housing... they have that gold colored coating, paint or something I dont' know, but it rubs off or damages very easily. After removing my stock WGA a couple times I'd say that now, even though I'm back to stock, it wouldn't be hard at all for a nosy tech who looked even a little bit closely to figure out that I have messed around in there and most likely removed the stock WGA.

Also, bear in mind that it's very likely that the computer does keep track of the maximum amount of boost that gets seen by the various sensors, and some people say that even resetting the PCM won't clear this out. I don't know for sure if that's the case, but basically the point I'm making is this:

This mod sounds like a great mod as far as being another cheap alternative to getting more boost, I'm not knocking it for that AT ALL. But just be careful when you tout it as an 'invisible mod' that the dealership will just be oblivious to the fact that anything has been changed at all. Sure on first glance they won't know anythings up... say you're in for an oil change or whatever. But lets say some overzealous kid ups the boost too much or has some other major problem and goes in for warranty work... I think in that case, where the techs will actively be looking for evidence of mods to void your warranty, I think you would still be screwed with this mod.

Garrett@FTP-Racing · 03-07-2006, 01:58 AM

^^thats probably true if you blow your motor or something. They are going to investigate it and find the scratches on your stock wga. Just dont do this mod if your still on the stock fuel system or it's on you. DONT USE WITHOUT SUPPORTING FUEL MODS. They are having that group buy for this and the fpr and i'm so getting it.

RuizGT · 03-07-2006, 08:59 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by Naska

The best part about this is with a normal manual boost controller, you can take the car in to ur local dodge dealer, remove the T for the MBC and u car now looks stock. As long as they don't 'road test' the car, they'd never know a thing!!

Or just buy another stock one, and swap it out before you go.

CivicSI · 03-07-2006, 10:01 AM

what kind of boost would I be looking at with stage 1 and no mbc.

turbo10 · 03-07-2006, 11:26 AM

^^ do u think with stage 1 it will be safe

Also hooked up to the stock black line, does anyone know the boost results.

tURBOsetch · 03-08-2006, 08:22 AM

Hmm Alot of questions.

As for stock benefits. I think it will boost the same for stock except it will hold better to redline. Without doing anything to the boost controler (stock) it would act basically normal. Some one will need to try this to find out.

Some one mentioned fuel mods. You don't need any fuel mods at all as long as you stay below 18.5PSI. ABove that you need to clamp the MAP or the timing will get pulled. I recommend WI as your fuel mod. Thats all we use on a Stage 0 and get 302-306HP. Need to re-dyno with the new spring but thats what we got before all of this. I would expect that the dyno HP curve will be flatter at the top before droping off at redline.

As for the dealer seeing the mod. Hmm well not bashing techs but they tend to not have an eye for detail due to the fact most dealers are very busy and they are in and out as fast as possible. Yes the way I described will leave marks on the casing. I guess my point was that its not like having an AGP WGA on there which totally stands out. I would say IMO the odds of a dealer noticing is very slim. As for the heat shield I had no problem. It just needs to be slid over to get to the pin on the arm after removing all the bolts.

PTB is the same as it would be with any other WGA. PTB is a boost controller issue not a WGA issue. A smart controller like a Apexi Type R will monitor throttle position, gear, rpm, speed to fix this issue. A greddy spec II helps alot thats what I have now waiting on the APexi for a deal. PTB is just going to be an issue without some sort of smarter control. I would say it will be more pronounced with this mod due to the stiffer spring however.

Good luck all. We just got a crap load of snow again so I am off the road for a little while.

SamIam1272 · 03-08-2006, 09:15 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by tURBOsetch

I know that other shops have done this and sell them for $150

This is true. I use to have one on my car, it's still in my garage. Only the one I have has extra bolts around it to avoid any leaking issues. It's has a 15 lb spring and will hold it to redine with out a boost controller. Then if you want more boost, you simply stack washers on top of each other under the spring, each 1 for about 1-1.5 lbs of boost. Mine at 18psi would only fluctuate probly less than 1 psi either way throughout the RPM band, with my boost controller turned off. It cost me $100 plus core back in the day.

You guys might want to consider stacking washers under the spring (For those who don't have a boost controller), as you could hold your wastgate-set psi to redline. although I don't know how that would work with these new springs.

Also, from what I understand, it's best to get your wastgate within 3-5psi of where your going to set your boost controller at to avoid some of the drivability issues. So, having your wastgate at say 8 psi and your EBC at say 18 could cause some problems.

punkrokdood · 03-08-2006, 09:31 AM

hmmm... i think i may give this mod a try.... great write up

hurdlemaker · 03-08-2006, 10:22 AM

hmmm...washers is a good idea

veilside67r · 03-08-2006, 11:31 AM

quick question. i have an agp wga old style. can this be done on that too. just wondering cause i can only get it to hold about 13-14 psi by itself. i can't make the jamb nuts any tighter, or i fear ill break the flapper arm. i have an mbc to get it to 17-18 but it spikes hard as hell. i wouldnt mind switching the springs f it can hold 18 by itself, and then fine tune it higher (around 20psi), when i get all my fuel worked out, with an mbc. what do you think?

bnice01 · 03-08-2006, 09:36 PM

Turbosetch

I knew you were a smart dude but damn good write up.

tURBOsetch · 03-08-2006, 09:42 PM

First of all your deafeating the purpose in a sense without a boost controler of some sort. The PCM will adjust and pull back the boost. The more you force it the more the PCM will pull back. I'm not real sure why the AGP doesn't work as well. AGP is a different design a bit internally. I suspect you will also have problems holding boost like I do without doing a good leak check. I have the mcmaster (whatever) check valve on the PCV and hard pipes. When I do a leak check the only hisss I hear is a vary very slight one around the TB plate which is normal. Timing and engine configs will also play into boost a little. Anyway point was that if you want more boost get a controller. I wouldn't personally mess with pre-loading the arm and what not unless you having issues in the high RPMS once you get the low RPMS worked out.

Any one got an APEXI Type-R boost controler for sale?

tURBOsetch · 03-08-2006, 09:44 PM

bnice...its not that complicated really a WGA is actually a really simple device. Thanks man anyway I have been messing with the turbo cars for a long time and having an engineering background helps alot.

Back-n-Black · 03-08-2006, 09:51 PM

I asked around about this a few times, but never took the time to give it a try. Great writeup and inovation man. Some people just like the stock look, and not for warrenty reasons, just to look stock. I think i will be giving this a try on the stock PCM lines and add any info i find for those who are asking about this. Great job man.
Randy

bnice01 · 03-08-2006, 09:53 PM

I mean I know what a wastegate does but eveyone has been saying that you couldnt take apart the stock one. I have been thinking about this since your old spring mod but the more I read the more I got disappointed since no one has taken it apart yet but good stuff. Also you still have your map signal clamp at 4.3? I hear you about the education stuff right now I am in the process of getting my A+, MCSA, and Cisco certifications $$$ good the the AF is paying for it.