i'd be interested in the 300-500 range. I'm only modding up the stock turbo so i would never even consider something above those prices. but i'll keep my eye on this thread.
I think more people would be interested if the product was proven in a high horsepower application first. Alot of people, me included don't like to be the ones to do trial and error on a new product.
I've been in contact with a couple of shops in the industry, trying to use this thread a s "pre-market" research to show that there is interest.
So far I haven't gotten very far, most feel that the niche is too small and too few people are willing to pay what it would take (consider that the stock replacement is MSRP at almost $500). I have one good lead that seems to be somewhat interested, however he's out on vacation until April 8th (IIRC).
I myself am considering the DCR automatic transmission as it is well proven to handle the power I plan on making and if I'm going to spend thousands on a tranny, I want to be sure it'll hold up. However, not everyone plans on making 900+ ft/lbs of torque (at the flywheel) so perhaps a company will be willing to step up and offer an upgraded input shaft. As for me, if this last company doesn't want to step up to the task, I'm going to drop the ball and let someone else try to run with it for awhile.
As I stated earlier in this thread, I have broken two of them now. Well, when I got the new one in, I took it to a machine shop to see if they could possibly make a billet steel shaft. The guy there said it wouldn't do much good, because anything we tried to do to increase the yield strength would make it less resistant to shock load, or in other words, more brittle. So I asked about shot peening, and he said that would result in the same thing. So I asked about cryo-treating, and got the same answer. He said the only thing you could really do is make a thicker shaft, which would requre modifications to the clutch to fit a larger shaft in it.
Now I'm no rocket scientist when it comes to treating metals, or going with harder ones, but isn't there some way to keep the part the same size and increase yield strength without affecting the amount of shock load a metal can resist? In essence, I think it's more of the shock load that is breaking the shafts, rather than just the amount of torque being applied to them. Someone fill me in here, please!
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2004 Solar Yellow SRT-4 - AEM EMS - AMS37R Turbo Kit - Custom fuel system - JMCylinderhead/Crower S2 cams - Stock bottom end...for now, anyway!
Best E.T. to date: 11.24
Best MPH to date: 129.77 MPH
Shock is what breaks most any drivetrain part. Wheelhop, hard launches without preload, and hard shifts. TQ is a factor but the way it's applied to tranny and drivetrain is what kills parts. The automatics are pushing more power but with the benefit of a converter and other factors to soften the shock.
Last edited by b16civicmatt : 04-03-2006 at 08:44 PM.
As I stated earlier in this thread, I have broken two of them now. Well, when I got the new one in, I took it to a machine shop to see if they could possibly make a billet steel shaft. The guy there said it wouldn't do much good, because anything we tried to do to increase the yield strength would make it less resistant to shock load, or in other words, more brittle. So I asked about shot peening, and he said that would result in the same thing. So I asked about cryo-treating, and got the same answer. He said the only thing you could really do is make a thicker shaft, which would requre modifications to the clutch to fit a larger shaft in it.
Now I'm no rocket scientist when it comes to treating metals, or going with harder ones, but isn't there some way to keep the part the same size and increase yield strength without affecting the amount of shock load a metal can resist? In essence, I think it's more of the shock load that is breaking the shafts, rather than just the amount of torque being applied to them. Someone fill me in here, please!
Heat treating with cryo treating after. That is what all the rock crawlers use in there u-joints and axles. I can look into getting this done. As far as a shaft goes, the complexity of the shaft is the problem in keeping it cheap. If I could get 100 buyers I could get the price down but only 25 or so have broke them so just as long as the upgradded piece doesnt break anymore then it would be safe to say that would be the end of sales till other broke them. I will keep an eye on this and if any of you want the heat treated unit that has been cryo treated hit me up with a PM.
It is definately shock load which is breaking the input shafts and not really power related at all. I have seen both stock turbo cars and big turbo cars with broken input shafts. It's all in the way you drive.
Most likely it's the 4500+ rpm hole-shots on slicks w/ clutches that are capable of holding the power without slipping that really does the input shaft in. That's the biggest shock to the system. Most likely that breaks the outer 1/8" or so of the shaft and then a powershift or two later the rest of the shaft twists in two.
It appears from the pictures of broken input shafts that the input shaft is "surface" hardened but not "through" hardened.
OK guys I have 5 input shafts on there way to me and I will be getting the heat treating and cryo treating done on them. I will have a better idea to cost in about a weeks time. The should be under $600.00.
If there was a 400 dollar core charge.. now were talking!
These are all brand new units and they will stay that way. I dont want to take any chances of getting a bad one that I can not see the cracks on. I should be able to cut the price down a bit since I am getting 5 at a time done but the new parts alone are expencive. I dont see anyone coming out with an alternative for anything less (I have tried and everyone want $1000 per shaft if I order less then 20). Price a new one and you will see why so much.
i would be interested.....especially if you could test it & prove the results! like launching @4k, 5k & 6k rpm w/ 450 whp on slicks w/out breakage!my car is down now.......pretty sure you guys are right about the shock factor! i think my clutch is to blame as i'm only at about 350 whp (clutch is BRUTAL!!)
mine broke shifting into 2nd! not even wot shifting!
need one in a month, this crappy hollow thing wont cut it in a few months
To quote an old post, the input shaft may be hollow for a reason. The trans uses splash lubrication and it may be that way to help internally lubricate some of the bearings and assemblies that ride on it. I haven't cracked one open yet, but that's something someone should verify before having a solid one machined.
I will try to get off my lazy a$$ and get some pics of the bare input shaft unless someone already has some. it is hollow to the spline end. not sure if it is necessary to be hollow that far out.
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