Hard to shift when car is hot. Can I get a trans guru in here? - Page 3 - Dodge SRT Forum
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post #31 of 63 (permalink) Old 12-11-2012, 04:00 PM
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post #32 of 63 (permalink) Old 12-11-2012, 05:02 PM
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I wonder how he got that?

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post #33 of 63 (permalink) Old 12-12-2012, 10:46 AM Thread Starter
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Gives me a chuckle every time I post!

2005 PVK w/ GWA

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post #34 of 63 (permalink) Old 12-12-2012, 11:03 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DetroitSRT View Post
My car does the exact same thing. Used to do it on hot days when I drove it to work more often. Now Ive only noticed it after a lot of runs at the track. When it starts to do it for me I adjust the clutch peddle so that it pushes the master cylinder push rod in a hair further. Fixes the issue for me. I agree it's probably the factory hydraulic lines. I've meant to install the SS line but haven't done it yet. IMO the clutch is not fully disengaged because the hydraulic system isn't pushing the fork far enough. You may have seen it move but did it move enough to disengage the clutch? When this issue happens to me the car pulls forward when I have the clutch peddle to the floor with the car in gear. When I adjust the peddle to push in further the issue goes away. I also have a HDSS but I used a stock fork (regret that decision). It may have something to do with the extra load required to disengage the aftermarket clutch wearing my stock fork at an abnormally fast rate?

I only drive my car about 4k miles a year so the issue might come up once a year. I'm curious to see what solves this issue.
It definitely moves enough to disengage the clutch because other gears are fine to get into, and it doesn't give me trouble when cold. Only when up to temperature.

I'm thinking the stock lines + heat + heavy clutch = No bueno

Seems to be a hit or miss, some cars are affected, others aren't.

2005 PVK w/ GWA

Built motor & Ported head
Forward Motion E1 turbo
LCR ported & polished manifold (Werks elbow mod)
Tial 38mm wastegate
FIC 1100cc injectors
Werks modified Aeromotive 340 Stealth fuel pump
Powered by: E-85

Tuned by Dave, aka Duster360
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post #35 of 63 (permalink) Old 12-12-2012, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by 1guy2horses View Post
It definitely moves enough to disengage the clutch because other gears are fine to get into, and it doesn't give me trouble when cold. Only when up to temperature.

I'm thinking the stock lines + heat + heavy clutch = No bueno

Seems to be a hit or miss, some cars are affected, others aren't.
Yeah I had replaced the clutch mc and the slave. Everything brand new and still had the problem when it got hot until I threw on the SS line. Im thinking the act heavy duty pressure plate is too much for the stock lines

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post #36 of 63 (permalink) Old 12-12-2012, 03:03 PM
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I had an HD pressure plate with stock lines until the motor went at 103k miles. Never had that problem. When I did the re-build, I did the SS lines with a new master just in case though because I went with an XT pressure plate. It wouldn't hurt to put it in and it is pretty inexpensive and easy.

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post #37 of 63 (permalink) Old 12-12-2012, 04:35 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by STV3 View Post
Yeah I had replaced the clutch mc and the slave. Everything brand new and still had the problem when it got hot until I threw on the SS line. Im thinking the act heavy duty pressure plate is too much for the stock lines
Same. I got a brand new MC and SC from Modern Performance. Brand new DCR rod, and Rage-Tek pedal pedal pivot.

I hoped it would fix it.. Nope. Like I said, it seems to be a hit or miss.

Thanks for the reply!

2005 PVK w/ GWA

Built motor & Ported head
Forward Motion E1 turbo
LCR ported & polished manifold (Werks elbow mod)
Tial 38mm wastegate
FIC 1100cc injectors
Werks modified Aeromotive 340 Stealth fuel pump
Powered by: E-85

Tuned by Dave, aka Duster360
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post #38 of 63 (permalink) Old 12-12-2012, 09:38 PM
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My 2:

1.) DEFINITELY put the SS hose on- you can take ANY late model crotchrocket w/stock front brake lines & do some panic stops. Switch over to SS & cut MANY feet off your stopping distance, that = LIFE -vs- DEATH!
2.) We know that everything expands as it heats up, all of those heated parts have grown a few thou, added up, equals further travel for sufficient clutch release. Many mechanical workarounds. AFTER switching to AMSOIL Synthetic trans oil, see Challenger 6-speed fixes for that AND the svc bulletin RE: molybdenum grease needed on input shaft splines bulletin being performed under wnty on those cars. One mechanical fix would be to drill a new hole in the pedal to give more travel to the slave. Another may be to use a master with a larger piston, perhaps a Challenger master? I haven't been into any of these, but also see to it that NOTHING can flex & reduce travel. If it's possible to get an eye or feeler gauge in there while hot, there should be a bit of clearance between the t/o brg w/clutch out & some clearance between the disc & flywheel w/clutch in. Maybe snake a borescope in there to look. Another item that MUST be taken into consideration is whether or not the bellhousing fits PERFECTLY, with the mainshaft entering the pilot bearing dead center. Chrysler engineering has put out some crap since the Chinese got their fingers in there & their beancounters are always trying to save a penny. Witness the loss of ALL NASCAR involvement on the heels of an OUTSTANDING season for Dodge. Those race engines & pieces are selling for pennies on the dollar now. 850-900HP for $10k or less. Hope I didn't do too mny typos, I can't scroll back on this tiny Android on screen keyboard without losing the cursor, permanently. One other option to add, since you DO reach racing temps, is to add SS hoses to the fill & drain plugs, an oil cooler, & an oil pump to circulate the trans oil. Maybe wire up a temp gauge first to legitimize the added expense. Which adds another dilemma, what IS generating the most heat? All three systems are bolted together & become one big heatsink, so a hot hot engine will end up heating up the clutch, more likely that than the trans heat. Between the SS slave hose, possible dry splines causing the disc to hang, & keeping the entire assembly cooler, this problem should be solved. Assuming there's no casting, machining, or other design or manufacturing flaws in the clutch system & parts used. This type of problem is known to virtually all lifetime motorcycle racers, before hydraulics we could ALL be seen dialing our handlebar clutch cable adjusters many times during races. Whether you gained slack or it got tight depended upon the clutch release design, pushrod -vs- lifter.
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post #39 of 63 (permalink) Old 12-12-2012, 11:24 PM
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Had a similar issue on my dads 03 PT. I replaced the slave and still the same issue. Check where the clutch pedal pivot bolt is located. you may have to loosen it and pull the pedal back toward the driver seat. Did that and the problem went away.
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post #40 of 63 (permalink) Old 12-13-2012, 06:18 AM
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When its warm and won't go into first, pump the clutch pedal hard 10+ times rapidly from top to bottom and see if it goes in.

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post #41 of 63 (permalink) Old 12-13-2012, 08:55 AM
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^ Its random.

Sometimes it will go in like a charm, Sometimes it gets completely locked out. Even if you pump the pedal.
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post #42 of 63 (permalink) Old 12-13-2012, 10:03 AM
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Has the slave been bleed?

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post #43 of 63 (permalink) Old 12-13-2012, 11:01 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holeshot View Post
My 2:

1.) DEFINITELY put the SS hose on- you can take ANY late model crotchrocket w/stock front brake lines & do some panic stops. Switch over to SS & cut MANY feet off your stopping distance, that = LIFE -vs- DEATH!
2.) We know that everything expands as it heats up, all of those heated parts have grown a few thou, added up, equals further travel for sufficient clutch release. Many mechanical workarounds. AFTER switching to AMSOIL Synthetic trans oil, see Challenger 6-speed fixes for that AND the svc bulletin RE: molybdenum grease needed on input shaft splines bulletin being performed under wnty on those cars. One mechanical fix would be to drill a new hole in the pedal to give more travel to the slave. Another may be to use a master with a larger piston, perhaps a Challenger master? I haven't been into any of these, but also see to it that NOTHING can flex & reduce travel. If it's possible to get an eye or feeler gauge in there while hot, there should be a bit of clearance between the t/o brg w/clutch out & some clearance between the disc & flywheel w/clutch in. Maybe snake a borescope in there to look. Another item that MUST be taken into consideration is whether or not the bellhousing fits PERFECTLY, with the mainshaft entering the pilot bearing dead center. Chrysler engineering has put out some crap since the Chinese got their fingers in there & their beancounters are always trying to save a penny. Witness the loss of ALL NASCAR involvement on the heels of an OUTSTANDING season for Dodge. Those race engines & pieces are selling for pennies on the dollar now. 850-900HP for $10k or less. Hope I didn't do too mny typos, I can't scroll back on this tiny Android on screen keyboard without losing the cursor, permanently. One other option to add, since you DO reach racing temps, is to add SS hoses to the fill & drain plugs, an oil cooler, & an oil pump to circulate the trans oil. Maybe wire up a temp gauge first to legitimize the added expense. Which adds another dilemma, what IS generating the most heat? All three systems are bolted together & become one big heatsink, so a hot hot engine will end up heating up the clutch, more likely that than the trans heat. Between the SS slave hose, possible dry splines causing the disc to hang, & keeping the entire assembly cooler, this problem should be solved. Assuming there's no casting, machining, or other design or manufacturing flaws in the clutch system & parts used. This type of problem is known to virtually all lifetime motorcycle racers, before hydraulics we could ALL be seen dialing our handlebar clutch cable adjusters many times during races. Whether you gained slack or it got tight depended upon the clutch release design, pushrod -vs- lifter.
Awesome post! I don't know if you could find a master with a larger piston, I think it would be trial and error, for sure. Also whether or not it would help would be within question. I will be doing the SS line for sure as soon as I find time in my busy schedule.

If I had to guess, I'm thinking it's just heat generated from the engine, it's basically a giant sauna under the hood. Oh the joys of hydraulic systems!

Quote:
Originally Posted by moparneonman View Post
Had a similar issue on my dads 03 PT. I replaced the slave and still the same issue. Check where the clutch pedal pivot bolt is located. you may have to loosen it and pull the pedal back toward the driver seat. Did that and the problem went away.
There is enough throw, I know that. The DCR rod, by nature, is longer than the stock one, so I have no worries as far as that is concerned.

That would help for a worn fork, not so much in this case, especially since this seems to be a problem with temperature.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BOOSTMONSTR View Post
When its warm and won't go into first, pump the clutch pedal hard 10+ times rapidly from top to bottom and see if it goes in.
I have tried this with no success.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tunerlover3 View Post
^ Its random.

Sometimes it will go in like a charm, Sometimes it gets completely locked out. Even if you pump the pedal.
Yep. Dan has seen it, the car needs to be shut off to be put in reverse.

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Originally Posted by bitts View Post
Has the slave been bleed?
It's a brand new MOPAR slave and master. I know it is pre-bled, but I did bleed it before installing. It's bled, that I am 110% sure of.

2005 PVK w/ GWA

Built motor & Ported head
Forward Motion E1 turbo
LCR ported & polished manifold (Werks elbow mod)
Tial 38mm wastegate
FIC 1100cc injectors
Werks modified Aeromotive 340 Stealth fuel pump
Powered by: E-85

Tuned by Dave, aka Duster360
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post #44 of 63 (permalink) Old 12-13-2012, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tunerlover3 View Post
^ Its random.

Sometimes it will go in like a charm, Sometimes it gets completely locked out. Even if you pump the pedal.
I'm sure if he pumped it hard like I said held it, put it in 2nd then quickly back to first it would work.. could also be a warped pp, disk, or fly, or the clutch wasn't properly broken in and material from the disk is getting left behind on the pp or fly, making it stick when warm due to full face act material gets sticky. Should adjust the pedal all the way up also by loosening the 8mm and pulling and holing by hand as far as it can go while tightening again.
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post #45 of 63 (permalink) Old 12-13-2012, 12:39 PM
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Where can I purchase a steel clutch line??
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