In Between Coolingmist Nozzle Sizes -- Tuning Options Discussion
At least I think I'm in between the ones that were provided. . .
I had been having very good results with the small nozzle provided on my setup that has netted me a couple of 115 trap speeds with a stock compression 2.0 Neon motor in my first gen Neon. Still, it seemed like I could probably use a bit more range, since my IATs bottomed out and started to rise again fairly early in the RPM range (and boost range, since I have a bit of creep at the high end).
I built a new 3" exhaust this weekend, and went a bit lean, so I figured now was the time to try the bigger nozzle to bring my AFRs back down a bit without retuning my VE table. Also, since I figured the bigger exhaust would provide additional boost creep, I figured the bigger nozzle would kind of stretch the range of my system (250psi CMGS system) a bit.
For the most part it worked, but I do feel just a bit of missing now at the big end, and I'm not terribly surprised when my flow gauge says I have about doubled my flow of 50:50.
So I figure my options are:
1) An in-between nozzle size (this might be the optimum option). David, is something available?
2) Higher pressure setting with the smaller nozzle. This is another good sounding option, but I don't think it will give me all of the additional volume I'm looking for. If it would, the additional atomization would be nice. How much headroom does the "250psi pump" set at the stock 200psi really have?
3) Reduce pressure/volume by setting the max to something higher than my max boost. I'm creeping to around 19psi now, so I could set this to 25, or 30 or whatever would work, but I hate to give up the atomization.
4) Leave my WAI and VE maps as they currently are, and add timing. I'm guessing that the missing comes from a flame front speed slowed down too much by the additional water, so lighting the mixture off earlier should be helpful.
5) Add Methanol to my mixture to reduce the water amount. This might be the optimal option if I wasn't pulling my water/methanol from my windshield washer tank. I don't know how much concentration of methanol I want to be spraying as windshield washer fluid, but I guess if it's raining or snowing, who cares?!?!
I'm looking forward to some thoughtful discussion on these options, especially from people who have knowledge of the various tuning approaches to water/methanol injection in gasoline forced induction applications! ! !
) Higher pressure setting with the smaller nozzle. This is another good sounding option, but I don't think it will give me all of the additional volume I'm looking for. If it would, the additional atomization would be nice. How much headroom does the "250psi pump" set at the stock 200psi really have?
I dont recommend to adjust the pump past 250 PSI. I prefer customers keep it at 200 unless they need the additional 50 PSI, beyond 250 PSI the pump will not be reliable.
Quote:
1) An in-between nozzle size (this might be the optimum option). David, is something available?
Having said that, you have the M5 and M10. We do have an injector that is in the middle.
The 13N500 may interest you. The details are below. Your small nozzle is 13N380 and the large was 13N760.
3) Reduce pressure/volume by setting the max to something higher than my max boost. I'm creeping to around 19psi now, so I could set this to 25, or 30 or whatever would work, but I hate to give up the atomization.
Since you have the VC2/CMGS (nice choice btw) you dont need to do that. Just go into configuration mode and set the MAX dutycycle lower. It will then scale the new dutycycle over the entire range of your proper MIN/MAX settings. Setting the MAX higher than your MAX is something you would have to do if you had a different brand controller, ours is designed to allow you to do this more elegantly.
So the 13N500 @ 250psi is pretty close to dead in the middle then. . . I NEED ONE!
Could you PM me the info or something please?
Also, I need to know what type of gauge I need, and what kind of hardware, to measure and adjust my pump up to the full 250psi, if that is where the reliability limit is. Unless there's a good reason, I don't think I want to be running less pressure than that.
If I continue to see indications of good distribution, I'll take my proportion of methanol up a bit in my mixture, and adjust my VE table as necessary. I think there's more to be had here, and maybe with stock pressure on the larger nozzle if I can find the right mix ratio. Still, I would like to have the ability and hardware to tune my system as I see fit, so unless the correct gauge is ridiculously expensive or something, I might as well get one.
Now, about the pump operating pressure, what kind of a gauge would I use for that? ? ?
As far as fittings, I'm guessing I could just "T" into the line from the pump to the flow valve, or from the flow valve to the solenoid?
I just don't see a good reason to be running less than the maximum reliable PSI with this setup. . .
EDIT: Googling around for a gauge, in order to get the most stable readings despite the fluctuating nature of the water delivery, is a filled gauge good enough, or do I need one with a snubber, which I assume to just be an orifice to restrict the pressure change?
I see one with a .0012" snubber (or was it a .012" snubber), which seems like it might do a nice job. . .
Another EDIT: I see that snubbers are also available separately, which might mean that a less expensive gauge can be used. For example, here is a pretty fancy snubber:
Oh man, we have a GREAT store like that here in town it turns out!
Got a 600psi glycerin filled gauge (because they are most accurate mid-sweep I guess), a "T", and a 1/4" pushlock fitting for the gauge for VERY reasonable money! I hope I'll be able to work on adjusting my pressure some tonight.
It's a bit of a shame though, since I got my tune pretty well dialed in today for 200psi on the 13n760 with ~60% methanol. . . . Oh well, can't stop fiddling around!
My 250psi pump was only pushing ~150psi through the 13n760 nozzle, which fits very nicely with the volume in the chart, so I have no reason to doubt my new gauge.
Is this normal?
Assuming so, the 13n500 nozzle is looking really good at 250psi.
The 250 psi pump is pre-set at 200 and thats what should show up on your gauge. If your gauge is accurate, you can adjust your pump to 200 or 250 if you wish. there is a small 1/16 hex key in the front for adjustment.
Its possible they got the adjustment wrong at the factory.
I had trouble getting my pressure up to 200 psi, and the adjuster screw seems like it may be getting close to the maximum adjustment (it's getting difficult to turn). Can it be that 200 psi is not attainable with the 760 nozzle?
I would be suspicious of your gauge at this point.
At this point I've got my doubts that the gauge is wrong David, even with cranking that screw a long way in, and getting an additional 40psi or so indicated on the gauge, but then getting into some strange looking intermittent pressures, I seem to be running a little leaner if anything. . . .
I've got to get a bit more data before I'm sure, but I was pulling 11.7:1 AFRs after the adjustment, where before that I had been in the high tens to the low 11s.
I can do more tests David, but I'd like to get this nailed down soon if my pump isn't putting out like it should (before the warranty from the pump manufacturer runs out or whatever).
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In Between Coolingmist Nozzle Sizes -- Tuning Options Discussion
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