Running anything over 15lbs of boost my car leans out to around 12.0-12.3 a/fr's above 6,000rpms. From 3-6k rpms though i have to pull anywhere from 6-8% on the safc to hit 11.2 a/fr range with 93 pump.
SO what im wondering is if i get a set of 925-950cc inj and run straight e85 will the car idle ok? i know they idle a little ruff with 750's but running e85 would make the 950's about that same size. I know it takes 20-30% more fuel for e85 so in theory it should idle drive ok out of boost but be safe up top, not to mention with it being 105+ octain if it does get lean uptop it should still be plenty far from knock.
What do you think? will it work? or am i going to need a rrfp and return line to make it work?
thanks,
-Jesse
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Last edited by millertime : 05-27-2008 at 02:58 PM.
There is a guy on here named Burd running 925cc injs on E85 and a SAFC. I pm'd him, but didn't get much info.
How are you running out of fuel up top with 650's? Although I do have a return line, on stg 1 injs I run 16psi on my .48 50trim and at redline the afr's are high 11's. And I have more mods just run stock cat back. I thought DW 650's where rated at 43psi. So technically with you running the stock FPR still you should have plenty of fuel for atleast 18psi I'd assume. Because the rising rate regulator will start at 43psi and add 1psi of fuel for every psi of boost. It would take atleast 15psi to equal the stock fuel pressure, then take into account the 650's flow more then the Mopar 682's I'd think you would have more fuel.
If E85 was available in more then two gas stations in a 50 miles radius around here I'd switch to it. My buddy's Evo is on it and he runs a 31psi spike on a FP 20g and makes over 470whp!
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Ya i have no clue why i dont have enuf fuel? With my s2 inj in at 16lbs i was at 12.4-12.7 accross the board!!! so that lasted for 2 pulls and took them out. threw in my 650's and had plenty of fuel from 3-6k, it was in the high 9's low 10's but then at 6k it came up to high 11's. i turned up the boost a couple lbs to 19 and now im in the 12's over 6k but still have plent of fuel lower?
My .50 trim will flow a little more air being that its a .63 but it shouldndt be so much that my 650's run out above 6000rpms... it sucks.
Im picking up a rrfpr and return line used tomorrow for pretty cheap and i should have plent of fuel then, id still like to switch over to e85 though.
I guess ill just make e85 a project for a few weeks from now.
you definitely need to post your map for the safc and overall setup once you get it running right! I've been wanting to switch over but A: can't find a local e85 dealer and more importantly B: don't know where to start with e85
you definitely need to post your map for the safc and overall setup once you get it running right! I've been wanting to switch over but A: can't find a local e85 dealer and more importantly B: don't know where to start with e85
Right on i will once i get it working, right now i just want to make it safe on pump, im sapose to go to the track on sat, after that im probably gonna try switching to e85, ill keep you updated.
So I was thinking. My friend was able to run 24psi on his stg2 neon. That's stg2 inejctors and a Walbro pump. This was on a .63 50trim. He had to finally do return line, Neo, and 750's when he added Crane 14's.
Are you sure your pump is installed correctly? The little black o-ring around the still good? Pump seated properly in canister? I'm not trying to say it's your fault, but I really think you should have more fuel then you do.
So I was thinking. My friend was able to run 24psi on his stg2 neon. That's stg2 inejctors and a Walbro pump. This was on a .63 50trim. He had to finally do return line, Neo, and 750's when he added Crane 14's.
Are you sure your pump is installed correctly? The little black o-ring around the still good? Pump seated properly in canister? I'm not trying to say it's your fault, but I really think you should have more fuel then you do.
Well im pretty sure it is? didnt have any problem with it or anything before i put the .50trim on.
Was that on race gas? on his stock boost guage? cuz there is no way i could do that. with my 650's in i have plenty of fuel, im now pulling like 10% from 3-6k but after that is where i start to run out. i thinkn your friend would be the 1st person in history to be able to run that much boost with a fule pump and s2 injectors?
Did your friend have a 55mm tb, bfmic, hard pipes, 3.5-4" exhuast? all these things could lean it out and are what i have.
-Jesse
Last edited by millertime : 05-30-2008 at 05:42 PM.
Well im pretty sure it is? didnt have any problem with it or anything before i put the .50trim on.
Was that on race gas? on his stock boost guage? cuz there is no way i could do that. with my 650's in i have plent of fuel, im now pulling like 10% from 3-6k but after that is where i start to run out.
Did your friend have a 55mm tb, bfmic, hard pipes, 3.5-4" exhuast? all these things could lean it out.
-Jesse
That was actually on pump gas with mid 11 afrs! Race gas doesn't necessarily change your afr's unless the specific gravity of the fuel is different. I was shocked myself, believe me. No KR according to his scan gauge either. Non-stock boost gauge. He had FMIC, DCR ported I/M & T/B and Full Mopar exhaust, hard pipes. Your exhaust is definitely less restrictive, but I don't see it making that much of a difference. If you have time one day just give everything a quick once over that's fuel related.
That was actually on pump gas with mid 11 afrs! Race gas doesn't necessarily change your afr's unless the specific gravity of the fuel is different. I was shocked myself, believe me. No KR according to his scan gauge either. Non-stock boost gauge. He had FMIC, DCR ported I/M & T/B and Full Mopar exhaust, hard pipes. Your exhaust is definitely less restrictive, but I don't see it making that much of a difference. If you have time one day just give everything a quick once over that's fuel related.
WOW really though ive never seen above 18lbs, he is the 1st. Ill go give everything a once over but im pretty sure its ok. Most people with s2 can only get 16-18lbs.
at 22lbs on 93 pump i was getting no knock but afr's were climbing into the 12's so i figured i better turn it back to 20.
your freind ever make it to the track with that setup? what was he getting for timing?
WOW really though ive never seen above 18lbs, he is the 1st. Ill go give everything a once over but im pretty sure its ok. Most people with s2 can only get 16-18lbs.
at 22lbs on 93 pump i was getting no knock but afr's were climbing into the 12's so i figured i better turn it back to 20.
your freind ever make it to the track with that setup? what was he getting for timing?
-Jesse
I have no Idea of his timing. He was running 7.9s at the strip. I forgot the trap. I know now his fastest time spinning slicks is 7.55@97. But that was after Neo/750s/returnline/race gas tune/crane 14s.
Running anything over 15lbs of boost my car leans out to around 12.0-12.3 a/fr's above 6,000rpms. From 3-6k rpms though i have to pull anywhere from 6-8% on the safc to hit 11.2 a/fr range with 93 pump.
SO what im wondering is if i get a set of 925-950cc inj and run straight e85 will the car idle ok? i know they idle a little ruff with 750's but running e85 would make the 950's about that same size. I know it takes 20-30% more fuel for e85 so in theory it should idle drive ok out of boost but be safe up top, not to mention with it being 105+ octain if it does get lean uptop it should still be plenty far from knock.
What do you think? will it work? or am i going to need a rrfp and return line to make it work?
thanks,
-Jesse
It sounds to me like you just don't have enough pump (Or the combination of pump, feed line, etc. is just not flowing enough.)
If it doesn't act like that with gasoline, it shouldn't act like that with ethanol unless the additional volume requirements are pushing you past the flow limits at the given fuel pressure and duty cycle. My recommendation: run a return line and an inline booster pump.
When you get big injectors like that, once you get to the point where the injector pulses start to overlap (More throttle) the pump will have a tendency to drop fuel pressure a little bit since electric pumps flow more at low pressures than high pressures. You probably don't notice this with gasoline because the stock fuel pressure regulator is set lower than the limit of your gasoline fuel flow requirements.
The way to verify I'm not full of it: run a fuel pressure test kit, and observe the fuel pressure drop with gasoline at full throttle and high RPM. It will probabl dip but just a little bit. Then do the same with e85, and observe the change. If the fuel pressure drops more with e85, you need more pump flow to compensate.
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Wana run e-85, just want to make sure it will work this way,
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