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Old 01-17-2013, 01:49 PM   #91 (permalink)
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Quote: Originally Posted by nemiro View Post
You are spot on. Dave is pretty sharp, and knows what he is doing.

For the testing that I will publish, I will name the fluid (I use a few different ones, but will decide which one to use for this, and stick with it), the density of that fluid, barometric pressure (it matters!) and temperature.

I would be curious to see what the results would be with different fluids, so we can see what kind of spread the diff fluids make
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Old 01-17-2013, 01:58 PM   #92 (permalink)
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Quote: Originally Posted by Millernz123 View Post
Yes it does play a role, but I am going off of Duster360s calculations which aren't going by fluid. They are just calculations of what they SHOULD flow, just like the flow calculator that you can pull off any injector site. By just calculating the injectors, they will not flow at that rate.

There has to be some kind of fluid involved when making a calc.

Im sure those calcs on said injector sites are based on what fluid they use IN HOUSE. Not what other people use.

hmmm.....I use motor oil to test injects. My 2000cc injects only flow 1cc, thats not as advertised. wtf

apples to oranges dude.
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Old 01-17-2013, 01:58 PM   #93 (permalink)
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Not a bad idea. It does make a big difference, though, that I can tell you for sure.
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Old 01-17-2013, 02:24 PM   #94 (permalink)
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Quote: Originally Posted by nemiro View Post
Not accusing anyone of anything. I just see a smattering of BS (from a lot of parties), and a lot of people saying things to the effect "glad I bought xyz injector instead of these", and other things like that. Funny thing is that many people make claims like that in these types of threads, and in all actuality, they were the ones who got totally owned by marketing hype! I spend a lot of time doing real research and testing that most people never see, nor do I typically share, except to know how to best and properly advise my customers. Good reliable info and practices results in happy and reliable customers!


What do you figure? It's the srt forums. Gotta put the mucking boots on and sift through BS sometimes on here, lol.
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Old 01-17-2013, 02:27 PM   #95 (permalink)
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Quote: Originally Posted by D-ROK View Post
There has to be some kind of fluid involved when making a calc.

Im sure those calcs on said injector sites are based on what fluid they use IN HOUSE. Not what other people use.

hmmm.....I use motor oil to test injects. My 2000cc injects only flow 1cc, thats not as advertised. wtf

apples to oranges dude.


Absolutely. Based on my rough calcs, the OP's injectors were tested using a fluid in the 730Kg/m^3 range

The mass flow rate specified by Siemens using N-Heptane at 39psid(not 43.5psi!) is what I used to calc the volumetric flow rates.
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Old 01-17-2013, 02:28 PM   #96 (permalink)
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FWIW, the orignal test fluid used by Chrysler was n-Heptane (as Duster noted). It has a density of 679.5 kg/m3 (at 20C). It is expensive and hard to get enough pure n-Heptane to test with, so I typically use naptha, which is easy to get pure, and is readily available. It has a density of 665 kg/m3 (@ 20C), and is one of the closest in properties to n-Heptane. I do not use gasoline, as though it would seem to be the best, the problem is that the blends always move around, and tests can be skewed.

Unless someone has a good objection, I will be using naptha during my tests.
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Old 01-17-2013, 03:14 PM   #97 (permalink)
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Dave, why don't you send Neil a set of the injectors to have them tested then? This thread was started for the 888cc 1025cc injectors and now we changed it to other injectors.
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Old 01-19-2013, 04:08 PM   #98 (permalink)
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Here is the Invoice for the injectors I figured I would post this so you could see I was telling the truth. Flow sheet for new or clean injectors.

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Old 02-05-2013, 09:17 AM   #99 (permalink)
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I was a bit delayed as I totally rebuilt my fuel injector characterization test rig from scratch. I did this to give better, more accurate and repeatable numbers. I am quite proud of how it turned out. I did record a little video of it in action, and will share it in the coming days.

underSRTarmour sent me his set of FIC 1100 injectors, and I have flowed them. I will post up final numbers, but I will say that they flowed the top end fuel that they advertised. I am not overly impressed with the linearity, low pulsewidth response, nor 'dead band' times of the injector, but when opened up they do exactly as you would hope. I also found that unlike many injectors, they do not stop flowing at an 85% DC. In fact, they flow an additional 164cc/min between 85% and 100% DC. I will be compiling results for a few common injectors today, and will post up a chart later on.

If you are curious what your Brand X/Type Y injectors flow, no kidding, and in perfect relativity to other injectors tested on this setup, PM me, be prepared to send me your injectors for a few days, and I will post up. Goal here is to cut through all marketing hype, and give real world results that can be referenced against other injectors.
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Old 02-05-2013, 09:29 AM   #100 (permalink)
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Quote: Originally Posted by nemiro View Post
I was a bit delayed as I totally rebuilt my fuel injector characterization test rig from scratch. I did this to give better, more accurate and repeatable numbers. I am quite proud of how it turned out. I did record a little video of it in action, and will share it in the coming days.

underSRTarmour sent me his set of FIC 1100 injectors, and I have flowed them. I will post up final numbers, but I will say that they flowed the top end fuel that they advertised. I am not overly impressed with the linearity, low pulsewidth response, nor 'dead band' times of the injector, but when opened up they do exactly as you would hope. I also found that unlike many injectors, they do not stop flowing at an 85% DC. In fact, they flow an additional 164cc/min between 85% and 100% DC. I will be compiling results for a few common injectors today, and will post up a chart later on.

If you are curious what your Brand X/Type Y injectors flow, no kidding, and in perfect relativity to other injectors tested on this setup, PM me, be prepared to send me your injectors for a few days, and I will post up. Goal here is to cut through all marketing hype, and give real world results that can be referenced against other injectors.

as im not a fuel guru can you explain the bold..... im sure others are curious too


yeah!!!!! thanks Neil!!!!!!
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Old 02-05-2013, 04:32 PM   #101 (permalink)
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That sounds awesome nemiro. I'd love to see a big comparison of our most popular injector choices.
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Old 02-05-2013, 04:43 PM   #102 (permalink)
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Quote: Originally Posted by Zenkat View Post
That sounds awesome nemiro. I'd love to see a big comparison of our most popular injector choices.

I second that, also it sounds like Brandon should be happy with the results on his FIC injectors. I am wondering what injectors are on this list that are being tested.
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Old 02-06-2013, 01:16 AM   #103 (permalink)
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Quote: Originally Posted by nemiro View Post
In fact, they flow an additional 164cc/min between 85% and 100% DC.

The ramp flow rate can be blessing I suppose. But if it not captured in the fuel model, it can be a headache. I'd rather the stay linear but its better to ramp up than down.
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Old 02-06-2013, 08:53 AM   #104 (permalink)
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Quote: Originally Posted by underSRTarmor View Post
as im not a fuel guru can you explain the bold..... im sure others are curious too


yeah!!!!! thanks Neil!!!!!!

Basically it means that the response of the injector at low voltages, and low pulsewidths is not the best. I would like to see better control down there, but to be honest, even at that, the FIC1100's show better quality than many.

I have a new battery of tests I want to run on the FIC1100's, and will be attempting that tonight and tomorrow. For reference, a characterization of any given injector at any particular pressure (I ran the FIC 1100's at 43.5 psi, and will do 58psi next) takes me about 2.5 hours. It's not a trivial thing. So characterizing them at 43.5 psi takes 2.5 hours, and then at 58psi will take another 2.5 hours, so 5 hours to get what we want!
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Old 02-06-2013, 08:55 AM   #105 (permalink)
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Quote: Originally Posted by duster360 View Post
The ramp flow rate can be blessing I suppose. But if it not captured in the fuel model, it can be a headache. I'd rather the stay linear but its better to ramp up than down.

Yes, I agree. I was also not expecting that. When testing the popular Siemens 80# injector, I got almost clockwork linearity out of them with only a 0.83% difference between 85% and 100% DC @ 43.5psi.
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