I havent read about gains with that combo but if you are running 100% meth then the octane boost wont hurt and will allow you to be more aggressive with your tunes if you want.
__________________
S1, S2 WGA, wheels and tires, AGP Dog Bones, H-brace and traction bars, SRI,Ebay intercooler, 3" O2, Max Fab W/cat, custom Mopar/Borla, LM-1, and a little laughing gas 359hp and 440tq. Nitrous! my cure for depresion.
(\__/)
(='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your
(")_(") signature to help him gain world domination
Nitrous will freeze meth if mixed with water. It will turn the meth and water into crystals which will be injected into your motor. 100% meth would prob. work but why chance it? I would not spray both. Use race gas with nitrous. The nitrous will cool the intake charge better then meth and the race gas will give you the octane needed for more boost.
__________________
Now go get your shine box!
2005 Black ACR
Powered by Tune Time performance and N2MB
Nitrous will freeze meth if mixed with water. It will turn the meth and water into crystals which will be injected into your motor. 100% meth would prob. work but why chance it? I would not spray both. Use race gas with nitrous. The nitrous will cool the intake charge better then meth and the race gas will give you the octane needed for more boost.
The freezing point of meth is like -144F I don't think if you spray meth before the throttle body and nitrous direct port it would freeze and the cost difference between meth and race gas would make it worth it, and you don't run the nitrous and meth all the time like you would the race gas so you can decide when you want to go go go.
I will be using methanol port injection with a small 35 shot of nitrous, I'm looking at using both combined as a total power adder rather then both being independent power adders. The nitrous will be controlled by the AEM EMS and will have the Aquamist DDS3 (used for methanol injection) interfaced to the EMS.
The AEM directions for nitrous recommends the setup and use of a dry shot setup with the EMS increasing fuel delivery under nitrous activation, but I'm going to have wet shot setup as per recommendations of Jay at N2MB. Once things are setup I'm hoping to cut down on the pump fuel being delivered by the nitrous setup and use the methanol injection setup as additional fueling for the nitrous because it's high octane value.......but this is talk right now as I do not have this working.
You should be fine with methanol injection and nitrous.
Race gas is pretty expensive ... I tought shooting 100% meth in the cold pipe, to boost the octane, and then I could be more aggressive with the boost from the turbo + nitrous ... but then again, if the performance gains with the 100% meth shooting at same time as nitrous is pretty low, I could just sell the meth injection kit and only shoot nitrous ...
You may want to think about using a mix of water methanol for everyday use (without nitrous) so that when you nail it on the on ramp or such you can still keep knock lower then without. When it comes time to use nitrous at the track use 100% methanol to supplement the pump octane being used.
I know some users who are making 80HP with 100% methanol injection and no nitrous, so it can be cheaper in the long run to run more methanol and less nitrous but make the same or more power. As a hypothetical example: Nitrous setup for 35HP shot but with 100% methanol injection actually making 70HP = more bang or longer use out of a 10lb bottle.
Having meth in addition to a nitrous kit is just one more thing that can add to the tuning headaches. One more thing that can break or fail on your car. I've heard of more methenal kits failing than nitrous kits.
I'm a big fan of keep it simple. I'm not building my car to race in the SFWD class, so no need to build and tune to the Nth!!! If I had both meth and nitrous, Meth would be my off the track power/octane booster, but at the track it would be 110oct and a healthy dose of nitrous!!!
Again, it's your dime, spend it how ya like, just giving ya a different way to look at things.
Why not just running a dedicated fuel cell with some C16 for the nitrous fuel supply. Most guys just run a small 1/2 gallon or 1 gallon tank and an electric fuel pump for race gas on demand. That way you can put a hobbs switch on the nitrous fuel supply to prevent activation if the fuel pressure is too low.
It would be alot easier to tune and I think a bit safer.
__________________
Oklahoma's Life and Health Insurance Agent.
Kyle Jackson 405.401.5948
Having meth in addition to a nitrous kit is just one more thing that can add to the tuning headaches. One more thing that can break or fail on your car. I've heard of more methenal kits failing than nitrous kits.
I'm a big fan of keep it simple. I'm not building my car to race in the SFWD class, so no need to build and tune to the Nth!!! If I had both meth and nitrous, Meth would be my off the track power/octane booster, but at the track it would be 110oct and a healthy dose of nitrous!!!
Again, it's your dime, spend it how ya like, just giving ya a different way to look at things.
Yes the typical meth kits do not have any failsafe controls OR have failsafes that are nothing more then eye dot lights.
Check out the Aquamist kits sometime when you have a chance and specifically look at the DDS3. Not many SRT-4 owners using the Aquamist systems but if you look on the EVO forum for instance you will see many users swear by the kits for the exact reasons you mentioned = unlike most kits they work properly with excellent failsafe features allowing users to feel comfortable in pushing there tunes while using methanol.
i have both and have made this post many times. it all depends on what you want out of your car. personally i run a m5 nozzle just for daily. i could only spray a 35shot without 8deg or more of knock retard. read the post in my sig about the octane and nitrous i explain it all. im almost done with my new mani. so after that im going to put in the nitrous enrichment tank and run 100% meth in it. my total fuel load when spraying will be almost 50% meth. you need to run 100% meth with a normal wi kit to not get freezing. nitrous in liquid form is -128deg anything other then pure meth would freeze shouldnt cause to big of headaches but freezing is never a good thing inside a motor.
so basically, a 75 shot of direct port nitrous, on s1 + stock turbo at 20 psi, would give to much knock retard ? and then again, with the meth spraying 100% meth, it would only raise my octane point, not helping me out with the timing ...
I do not want to run a separate fuel cell for the nitrous setup ... I can't only just bolt-on the direct port and tune it to get 11.0 afr ? shooting the meth would help in detonation ...
I hadn't buy the direct port yet ... I could only install meth injection go alone with that ... I'm not sure on what to do ...
i have both and have made this post many times. it all depends on what you want out of your car. personally i run a m5 nozzle just for daily. i could only spray a 35shot without 8deg or more of knock retard. read the post in my sig about the octane and nitrous i explain it all. im almost done with my new mani. so after that im going to put in the nitrous enrichment tank and run 100% meth in it. my total fuel load when spraying will be almost 50% meth. you need to run 100% meth with a normal wi kit to not get freezing. nitrous in liquid form is -128deg anything other then pure meth would freeze shouldnt cause to big of headaches but freezing is never a good thing inside a motor.
Yeah but you have yet to prove that it's worth it with HP numbers!!! On running a strait 65 shot I did'nt have much timing being pulled at all!!! darn sure was not 8 degree's worth.
Until I see a before and after dyno, it's not worth the extra install effort, the extra cost and the extra tuning needed for it.
it not used mainly for the nitrous. in my case wi is used to keep detonation down during daily driving. look at my sig im close to knocking without nitrous. i was just stating what i had to do. as for running nitrous and 20psi you will need some form of race gas. 110 or higher i would imagine. rhunter didnt you only spray a 50shot with only a 17spike. and you said a while ago you used a nos octane booster right. i would think you should be ok with that there is a huge differance between your 50shot and his 75dp. i dont dyno my car. there is a big differance on nitrous enrichment tanks when you run strait meth. compaired to race gas. there has been alot of testing done with older v8's if you want some compair numbers. and also ptp swears by meth and nitrous.
it not used mainly for the nitrous. in my case wi is used to keep detonation down during daily driving. look at my sig im close to knocking without nitrous. i was just stating what i had to do. as for running nitrous and 20psi you will need some form of race gas. 110 or higher i would imagine. rhunter didnt you only spray a 50shot with only a 17spike. and you said a while ago you used a nos octane booster right. i would think you should be ok with that there is a huge differance between your 50shot and his 75dp. i dont dyno my car. there is a big differance on nitrous enrichment tanks when you run strait meth. compaired to race gas. there has been alot of testing done with older v8's if you want some compair numbers. and also ptp swears by meth and nitrous.
When I installed and tested my nitrous kit, it was jetted for a 65 shot, with a N.O.S octane booster. my buddy (ASE cert mech and chevy guy) was amazed at how little timing the car was pulling.
Yes, I normally set my MBC to spike 17, add @ one PSI for the open DP and what ever boost gain you might get from the Nitrous and I'm sure it's close to a 20 spike. John is a big supporter of nitrous and meth, but I asked if he could produce before and after dyno numbers as well.
When I spray my car I am ALWAYS on some sort of race gas or at the very least a bottle of the N.O.S (which does work really well).
Why would anyone spray on pump??? In my opinion spraying on pump gas is like having unprotected sex. You might get away with it for a while, but in some point in time you are gonna get burned!!!!
If you re-read my 1st response I said that if I had meth I would use it for my Off bottle tune (like you are doing), So where are you going with this?
I did not say it was stupid to have/run both!! I just feel it's not worth the extra time and money.
methanol injection + nitrous direct port
359hp and 440tq. Nitrous! my cure for depresion.
Linear Mode
