When I am at the track, I am able to run HOM with 22 - 24 psi and get 0.0 KR with 100 octane and meth injection. I am now going to be spraying a 50 shot on top of this. I was going to do race gas, and no meth, for complexity, and fear that the 50/50 meth/water would freeze, but on second thought, I am pretty sure that can't happen.
Windshield washer fluid is usually around 80/20 or 90/10 water/methanol. Its hard to find anything that is higher than that these days. And... those freeze around -20 to -30 degrees. That would make me think that 50/50 meth would freeze way colder than that. And...... there is no way that nitrous is going to bring my intake temps anywhere that cold. Not to mention that even if it flash froze for a split second, the other 40+ degree intake charge temps should thaw it instantly. This is my thinking at least.
So, I want to know any experience of people spraying both at the same time, and anyone that has FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE of it being good or bad. Here is my current setup:
If its not going to work, I can just pull the fuse and not spray the meth, and in its place run 112 octane fuel, but I would rather run 100 octane fuel, meth, and achieve the same results.
Thoughts?
__________________
'03 SRT4 - 11.930 @ 119.68 - first pass with the new slicks --My Mod List--
Well, i'm not spraying both for gains, I would be spraying meth so I could run 100 octane, instead of 112. It is either meth and 100, or just 112.
I know that if I do just 100 octane alone, without meth, it will kick me out of HOM.
I think he understands that you are using Meth for a higher octane rating, but as you know a by-product of meth is more timing hence more HP. a friend of mine gained 30whp using meth injection.
Turbo Jack talked to the folks over at Nitro Dave's nitrous outlet (they are experts on nitrous) and they told him: "If you already have meth, then go ahead and spray booth, it prob will not hurt anything. However, you will not see any large gains in performance from running both so it's not worth it to purchase a meth kit and a nitrous kit.
We are looking for data that proves the highlighted statement one way or the other. This has been a long going debate with good points for using both and good points not to use both. We want HARD DATA of a Meth dyno run, then a meth + nitrous dyno run so we can put this thing to bed once and for all. Hook us up
In that case, I will be your man I will be spraying both this Friday, at the track, hoping to go low 11's. Then next week, or in the near future, I will get it on the local Dynojet and get with and without meth nitrous pulls.
In that case, I will be your man I will be spraying both this Friday, at the track, hoping to go low 11's. Then next week, or in the near future, I will get it on the local Dynojet and get with and without meth nitrous pulls.
Woo Woo
COOL!! Hey if you get a chance, do a track run with just meth, then a run with meth+nitrous. Trap speeds should give us a good indication of if it helped alot, a little, or not at all. Not as precise as a dyno but better than no data at all.
Well, this is the data I have so far, from 50+ runs this year.
22 psi, cutout open, 100 octane, meth, not in HOM - 114 mph trap speed
22 psi, cutout open, 100 octane, meth, HOM - 120 mph trap speed
I will do some variations with the nitrous now, to see how it goes. I will do at least one run in HOM, and one run out of HOM, with nitrous, and see how that averages out. I am pretty sure I will go high 120's in HOM, with nitrous.
i have both and yes it will freeze the water, nitrous in liquid form is -128 deg. anthing less than i would say 95% meth will freeze. i personally dont think its a big deal because in the combustion event it will vaporize but you will have frozen particals going into your motor. if you want traps i could have told you that last time we had this convo. rhunter. i went from 112 with all stock turbo 20psi with only a 35shot on streets. to 118 with the same 35shot tuned with the meth. granted i gained alot with the meth and the tune but 6mph is alot just from adding meth on the same boost level. both runs i had 110 sunoco in the tank on two differant times at the track. i didnt get any knock with eather run and afrs i was about .5 leaner with the meth runs. going back to the track on july 11th, with the new cold fusion nozzle and 100shot with the new ported setup hoping for 125+ but i think the tires will hold me back.
i have both and yes it will freeze the water, nitrous in liquid form is -128 deg. anthing less than i would say 95% meth will freeze. i personally dont think its a big deal because in the combustion event it will vaporize but you will have frozen particals going into your motor. if you want traps i could have told you that last time we had this convo. rhunter. i went from 112 with all stock turbo 20psi with only a 35shot on streets. to 118 with the same 35shot tuned with the meth. granted i gained alot with the meth and the tune but 6mph is alot just from adding meth on the same boost level. both runs i had 110 sunoco in the tank on two differant times at the track. i didnt get any knock with eather run and afrs i was about .5 leaner with the meth runs. going back to the track on july 11th, with the new cold fusion nozzle and 100shot with the new ported setup hoping for 125+ but i think the tires will hold me back.
So you are saying you gained 6MPH with meth+nitrous? Just trying to clarify what I read. the OP seemed to have gained @ 6MPH as well. You were running race gas so Octane is not an issue. Interesting.
I highly doubt with the velocity of the charge theres time for methanol to freeze within the intake system of a turbocharged car under boost.
If the methanol injection system is less then ideal with drippy check valve setups or nitrous and methanol injected at low boost or continues to inject/drip after shut down then I guess there could be freezing. Puddling of methanol in intake tracts is an issue with the components, maintenance, continued injection after hitting the turn off point or an issue with the control/tuning device being used for metering and in command of turn on/turn off.
Just like nitrous had, methanol and water injection still has some ghost or boogie man in the box items still needing to be cleared up. With some of the bad things and proposed bad caveats that have been around with water and methanol injection its been the misunderstanding or the lack of understanding, equipment and method of delivery thats to behind most stories or problems.
To put into context, Corkey Bell in his book on turbo charging which a lot of people read or reference makes a global statement against water injection (thereby methanol injection as well) as simply a crutch for a bad tune. He wrote this in the early to mid nineties when the components and delivery methods were more home made solutions then engineered solutions. Were way past washer pumps, boiler nozzles and hobbs switches.......which by the way work fine on the low end intake air charge cooling or for just the very simple simplicity but this does not reflect where things are at today. Fuel injection introduced to the driving public had some of the same stuff to get over and most of the issues here again were with components and controllers not the concept. Same as for cars with computers.
Lots of things can go wrong and sometimes it can look like water and methanol are to blame for the problem because its the new kid or otherwise because less is understood about it or maybe just simply misunderstood. I doubt theres published irrefutable proof of an instance where methanol froze up with nitrous and frozen methanol droplets were doing damage in a combustion chamber.
I highly doubt with the velocity of the charge theres time for methanol to freeze within the intake system of a turbocharged car under boost.
If the methanol injection system is less then ideal with drippy check valve setups or nitrous and methanol injected at low boost or continues to inject/drip after shut down then I guess there could be freezing. Puddling of methanol in intake tracts is an issue with the components, maintenance, continued injection after hitting the turn off point or an issue with the control/tuning device being used for metering and in command of turn on/turn off.
Just like nitrous had, methanol and water injection still has some ghost or boogie man in the box items still needing to be cleared up. With some of the bad things and proposed bad caveats that have been around with water and methanol injection its been the misunderstanding or the lack of understanding, equipment and method of delivery thats to behind most stories or problems.
To put into context, Corkey Bell in his book on turbo charging which a lot of people read or reference makes a global statement against water injection (thereby methanol injection as well) as simply a crutch for a bad tune. He wrote this in the early to mid nineties when the components and delivery methods were more home made solutions then engineered solutions. Were way past washer pumps, boiler nozzles and hobbs switches.......which by the way work fine on the low end intake air charge cooling or for just the very simple simplicity but this does not reflect where things are at today. Fuel injection introduced to the driving public had some of the same stuff to get over and most of the issues here again were with components and controllers not the concept. Same as for cars with computers.
Lots of things can go wrong and sometimes it can look like water and methanol are to blame for the problem because its the new kid or otherwise because less is understood about it or maybe just simply misunderstood. I doubt theres published irrefutable proof of an instance where methanol froze up with nitrous and frozen methanol droplets were doing damage in a combustion chamber.
The few times that I've heard "meth gone wrong story's" the failure had more to do with the meth being used to tune the car in ways you would never ever dream of tuning em. On guy was running 28 PSI (stock turbo mind you) with stage II injectors and meth kit. Well the meth kit broke and he flew the welds on his manifold LOL!! Sorry about that. But really he tore the car up and had to have the motor rebuilt. the guy was a total idiot.
AutoForums.com is the premier network of enthusiast-owned
enthusiast-operated automotive communities.
We operate more than 100 automotive forums where our users consult peers for shopping information and advice, and share
experiences and opinions as a community.
Anyone here spay nitrous and meth?
of a Meth dyno run, then a meth + nitrous dyno run so we can put this thing to bed once and for all. Hook us up
I will be spraying both this Friday, at the track, hoping to go low 11's. Then next week, or in the near future, I will get it on the local Dynojet and get with and without meth nitrous pulls.
Linear Mode
