I was running 25 psi of boost without nitrous on my built motor, big turbo car. One of our vendors suggested turning the boost down to 23 and using a 55 shot of nitrous.
Does this amount of boost sound safe to spray on top of, or am I just being paranoid ? I have all of the safety features : wot switch, window switch, water meth injection, ability to completely tune at any rpm, wideband , ect, ect ....
I'm just wondering if this amount of boost is risky with that small shot of nitrous. Thanks
If your tune is good with the 25 psi then start small 25-35 shot. You will get more boost and a 35 shot gets you closer to a 65 shot on a n/a motor. I would get my tune great on 23 cause you will net probley 25psi from the nitrous, through in race gas and go from there. If you tune is good on 23psi then dont mess with it, if you are rich tune it with the nitrous jets. It will be a game start small and work. The nitrous will make that turbo hit harder also so traction will be an issue. I guess what Im trying to say is start small and work.
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I was running 25 psi of boost without nitrous on my built motor, big turbo car. One of our vendors suggested turning the boost down to 23 and using a 55 shot of nitrous.
Does this amount of boost sound safe to spray on top of, or am I just being paranoid ? I have all of the safety features : wot switch, window switch, water meth injection, ability to completely tune at any rpm, wideband , ect, ect ....
I'm just wondering if this amount of boost is risky with that small shot of nitrous. Thanks
Best advice I can give is start small and work your way up. Pull timing and get a colder plug in there. A 55 shot will in reality act slightly larger than that so take into account that as well. You're on the right path though...make sure your tune is set and make sure to use all of the required safety components.
runs 20psi +n2o= best numbers and wont over clock the turbo. once the nitrous hits its going to bring the boost up a few lbs. tune the car off the bottle on the set boost then spray. hope this helps
p.s. you dont want a lot of timing on the shot because it could lead to a bent rod or cracked ringlandings....good luck
runs 20psi +n2o= best numbers and wont over clock the turbo. once the nitrous hits its going to bring the boost up a few lbs. tune the car off the bottle on the set boost then spray. hope this helps
p.s. you dont want a lot of timing on the shot because it could lead to a bent rod or cracked ringlandings....good luck
What Reed said.
TO THE OP: Ok, I know you have a built motor, but what about your drive train? I just finished a summer of racing with nitrous and something (don't know what yet) in my drive train is finally feeling the effects of the instant torque. If you plan on being a nitrous car, i suggest a progressive controller to help reduce drive line shock.
Now that I'm finishing up a 50T install, I have no idea what I'm going to do with the nitrous cause I'm on a stock motor.
I also believe my 60' times suffered because I did not have a 1st gear lock out or progressive controller, so I was launching "around" the nitrous activation.
Great, great info guys ! I really appreciate it. Only one problem though. I purchased the standard Zex compact car nitrous kit, and a 55 hp jet is as small as it will go down to.
I also did not know that nitrous will actually add boost. I thought boost stayed the same.
Here's something else I'm having trouble understanding :
I've tuned the car to be mid 11's afr at 23 psi of boost .... but since I have a large turbo that spools slowly and doesn't hit full 23 psi until almost 5000 rpms, my AFRs are going to be waaaaaay high if when the nitrous hits, the spool goes straight to 23 psi at 3000 rpms instead, because I have way more fuel pulled at 3000 and lower boost as it is climbing than I do at 5000+ when the boost is steadily at 23 till redline.
I know nitrous helps spool faster, but is it almost instantaniously ? If so, I need to go back and add fuel at 3000 to 5000 and richen it up, where my afrs will be tuned for 23 lbs not just over 5000 rpms, but at 3000 to redline.
Am I making any sense ? LOL
Great, great info guys ! I really appreciate it. Only one problem though. I purchased the standard Zex compact car nitrous kit, and a 55 hp jet is as small as it will go down to.
I also did not know that nitrous will actually add boost. I thought boost stayed the same.
Here's something else I'm having trouble understanding :
I've tuned the car to be mid 11's afr at 23 psi of boost .... but since I have a large turbo that spools slowly and doesn't hit full 23 psi until almost 5000 rpms, my AFRs are going to be waaaaaay high if when the nitrous hits, the spool goes straight to 23 psi at 3000 rpms instead, because I have way more fuel pulled at 3000 and lower boost as it is climbing than I do at 5000+ when the boost is steadily at 23 till redline.
I know nitrous helps spool faster, but is it almost instantaniously ? If so, I need to go back and add fuel at 3000 to 5000 and richen it up, where my afrs will be tuned for 23 lbs not just over 5000 rpms, but at 3000 to redline.
Am I making any sense ? LOL
Makes perfect sense. Here are some things to keep in mind
- Zex rates at the fly wheel, not the wheel.
- You may not spike lean because you will get extra fuel via the fuel solnoid. You do have a wet kit right?
The best way to tune with nitrous is to nail your none nitrous tune, then dial in the nitrous shot using the fuel pill. In other words, if rich, try going down one fuel jet size, if lean try going up one fuel pill size. By tuning this way, you keep your base tune that you know to be good. Unless you have a device that allows you to store more than one tune.
- What are you tuning with? If you say SAFC, I'm going to hit you!!
You need to tune with something that can take timing into account, just incase you need to back some out.
- Do you have a bottle warmer and bottle pressure gauge? I would not spray until you at least have a pressure gauge. You want to spray between 900 - 1100 psi of bottle pressure. A shot at 1100 psi will affect your car differently than one at 900psi.
What turbo do you have that does not spool until 5k?
I'm far from an expert, but If you have a turbo that big, then you would be better served running a shot that tappers off as you build boost. In other words, the spray would stop once you reach say 19 PSI?
Why are you only running 23 PSI if you have a mongo turbo and build motor?
In closing: You probably know more about cars and motors than I do, but judging by your questions, this set up seems a bit ambitious. Ya might want to leave the spray alone for a bit.
Makes perfect sense. Here are some things to keep in mind
- Zex rates at the fly wheel, not the wheel.
- You may not spike lean because you will get extra fuel via the fuel solnoid. You do have a wet kit right?
The best way to tune with nitrous is to nail your none nitrous tune, then dial in the nitrous shot using the fuel pill. In other words, if rich, try going down one fuel jet size, if lean try going up one fuel pill size. By tuning this way, you keep your base tune that you know to be good. Unless you have a device that allows you to store more than one tune.
- What are you tuning with? If you say SAFC, I'm going to hit you!!
You need to tune with something that can take timing into account, just incase you need to back some out.
- Do you have a bottle warmer and bottle pressure gauge? I would not spray until you at least have a pressure gauge. You want to spray between 900 - 1100 psi of bottle pressure. A shot at 1100 psi will affect your car differently than one at 900psi.
What turbo do you have that does not spool until 5k?
I'm far from an expert, but If you have a turbo that big, then you would be better served running a shot that tappers off as you build boost. In other words, the spray would stop once you reach say 19 PSI?
Why are you only running 23 PSI if you have a mongo turbo and build motor?
In closing: You probably know more about cars and motors than I do, but judging by your questions, this set up seems a bit ambitious. Ya might want to leave the spray alone for a bit.
OK ... Here's why I purchased the nitrous kit. No matter WHAT I do, I simply can not get that damned Delta 65 to spool quickly enough for my unchangeable 6300 rpm redline. I say unchangeable because I DO NOT have the money for the cams, cam gears, springs, retainers, ported head, and brand new day of tuning it would take to rev to say 7000 or so.
What I just said above means I have a very small power window, rpm speaking.
I have tried EVERYTHING to make this thing reach full spool earlier. I've looked for vaccum leaks ... HAVE NONE. I've checked all of the exhaust components for leaks ( manifold, turbo, wastegate, ect ... ) HAVE NONE.
I even took apart the snail shell where it mates to that backing plate and placed high temp rtv in there to stop that small leak I had .... STILL to no avail.
I've played with my AVC-R boost controller for 5 months straight to no avail. No amount of gain setting, boost duty cycle, feedback speed, ect, ect changes how fast or slow this turbo spools.
Sure, it is pulling very hard, and the boost is climbing fast for sure according to my boost gauge, but it DOES NOT HIT my set max boost until it is around 5000 rpms. Now some would call this a blessing. Because I have progressive boost build which helps to not blow off the tires, but here is the problem : I use this car on the street. I need that torque to come on and help from 3000 rpms because I only have a 6300 redline. I need it to move on out until I grab the next gear.
It would be completely different if I were on the track and revving to 7500 rpms, but this car is not made for that.
To answer the next question :
#1 - My tuner told me my stock head simply would not flow enough to support much higher boost than 25 psi.
#2 - I've been told that higher boost levels are MUCH harder on the powertrain than adding a reasonable amount of nitrous, because higher boost adds HIGH temps, whereas nitrous cools things off.
#3 - I live in a climate that makes turbo cars run like crap in the summer HOT and humid. Nitrous makes it's own atmosphere and doesn't care about ambient temps.
See guys, I'm not really trying to make big power with nitrous. I'm just trying to spool quickly ( get my target max boost closer to 3000 than 5000 rpms ), and cool off my charge in summer.
I already have water meth, but it's not the same. I do indeed have a ottle heater and pressure gauge installed.
As far as tuning : I have SCT tuned, but upon the advice of my tuner I left in my SAFC-II ( zeroed out ) , where I can make small adjustments when weather, altitude, temp, ect, ect necissitates it. I'm glad I did too, because on his dyno I was mid 11 afrs, but when I got back home 5hrs drive away and 450 feet higher elevation I was at 10.1 afrs .....
So yeah, I could get a hobbs switch and turn the spray off a higher boost, but that would be somewhere around 4500 to 5200 anyway. I figured I might as well spray to redline and enjoy the cooler burn.
Please keep the advice coming. I really appreciate it !
OK ... Here's why I purchased the nitrous kit. No matter WHAT I do, I simply can not get that damned Delta 65 to spool quickly enough for my unchangeable 6300 rpm redline. I say unchangeable because I DO NOT have the money for the cams, cam gears, springs, retainers, ported head, and brand new day of tuning it would take to rev to say 7000 or so.
What I just said above means I have a very small power window, rpm speaking.
I have tried EVERYTHING to make this thing reach full spool earlier. I've looked for vaccum leaks ... HAVE NONE. I've checked all of the exhaust components for leaks ( manifold, turbo, wastegate, ect ... ) HAVE NONE.
I even took apart the snail shell where it mates to that backing plate and placed high temp rtv in there to stop that small leak I had .... STILL to no avail.
I've played with my AVC-R boost controller for 5 months straight to no avail. No amount of gain setting, boost duty cycle, feedback speed, ect, ect changes how fast or slow this turbo spools.
Sure, it is pulling very hard, and the boost is climbing fast for sure according to my boost gauge, but it DOES NOT HIT my set max boost until it is around 5000 rpms. Now some would call this a blessing. Because I have progressive boost build which helps to not blow off the tires, but here is the problem : I use this car on the street. I need that torque to come on and help from 3000 rpms because I only have a 6300 redline. I need it to move on out until I grab the next gear.
It would be completely different if I were on the track and revving to 7500 rpms, but this car is not made for that.
To answer the next question :
#1 - My tuner told me my stock head simply would not flow enough to support much higher boost than 25 psi.
#2 - I've been told that higher boost levels are MUCH harder on the powertrain than adding a reasonable amount of nitrous, because higher boost adds HIGH temps, whereas nitrous cools things off.
#3 - I live in a climate that makes turbo cars run like crap in the summer HOT and humid. Nitrous makes it's own atmosphere and doesn't care about ambient temps.
See guys, I'm not really trying to make big power with nitrous. I'm just trying to spool quickly ( get my target max boost closer to 3000 than 5000 rpms ), and cool off my charge in summer.
I already have water meth, but it's not the same. I do indeed have a ottle heater and pressure gauge installed.
As far as tuning : I have SCT tuned, but upon the advice of my tuner I left in my SAFC-II ( zeroed out ) , where I can make small adjustments when weather, altitude, temp, ect, ect necissitates it. I'm glad I did too, because on his dyno I was mid 11 afrs, but when I got back home 5hrs drive away and 450 feet higher elevation I was at 10.1 afrs .....
So yeah, I could get a hobbs switch and turn the spray off a higher boost, but that would be somewhere around 4500 to 5200 anyway. I figured I might as well spray to redline and enjoy the cooler burn.
Please keep the advice coming. I really appreciate it !
WOW!! That's a ton of info.
NUTS or ANYONE please correct me if I say something stupid ok?
- Nitrous will not make for lower EGTs or "cooler burn" as you put it. it will make for a cooler intake charge, hence the reason boost goes up when you spray. EGT is one of the things that should be monitored when using nitrous.
- Ok, what I'm talking about when I say "drive line shock" is the INSTANT torque that you get when you spray!!! meaning it jolts the drive line because you are going from 5hp/10 trq to 13hp/17trq. That's just an example but you get the point. A turbo is pretty linear as it increases power.
- For what you discribed you built the car for, you have picked the WRONG TURBO!! If you want that much boost in that particular RPM range then I would suggest a D44, D48 or 50 trim.
- Darksyde stated in your other post that you need a better flowing head and bigger cams to really spool that turbo right? Well there ya go.
- I know nothing about SCT, but maybe you should get a predator. You can make adjustments with the hand held. I think having two tuning devices is.... well stupid!!! One more thing to malfunction, and adds complication to the situation. If your tuner is ok with the extra tuning device, then hey, go with it. How much experience does he have with SRT-4's?
- I'm not trying to sound like a prick, but the design phase of your build was flawed. It sounds like you got the biggest turbo ya could, you did not take into consideration how the car's gonna be used, ect ect.
If it were me, I'd sell the D65 and just get a smaller turbo. but that's because I'm dumb and MUST keep things simple.
NUTS or ANYONE please correct me if I say something stupid ok?
- Nitrous will not make for lower EGTs or "cooler burn" as you put it. it will make for a cooler intake charge, hence the reason boost goes up when you spray. EGT is one of the things that should be monitored when using nitrous.
Exactly. Nitrous isnt going to do anything but make you want to keep an even closer eye on the EGT's.
Quote: Originally Posted by Rhunter
- Ok, what I'm talking about when I say "drive line shock" is the INSTANT torque that you get when you spray!!! meaning it jolts the drive line because you are going from 5hp/10 trq to 13hp/17trq. That's just an example but you get the point. A turbo is pretty linear as it increases power.
This. Syncros, Clutches, right on down the line all feel the effect of the instant power increase. Nitrous hits, and it hits hard on our cars. these effects are even more pronounced down low, when things havent really gotten up to speed yet.
Quote: Originally Posted by Rhunter
- For what you discribed you built the car for, you have picked the WRONG TURBO!! If you want that much boost in that particular RPM range then I would suggest a D44, D48 or 50 trim.
you really should have waited for the top of the motor to match the build of the bottom of the motor before putting power goals like the d65 can have together. a nice 50trim would have done much more for you, and could have pushed to its efficiency limit per-se rather than floating at the bottom of the d65's efficiency range.
Also like Rhunter said, why run the AFC along with the SAFC. The safc is garbage and should be sold to fund what could be a more efficient turbo. One less thing in the mix is one other thing to go wrong. Simpler is Better
I didn't read through anyone's posts...but I sprayed a 75 shot on top of 24psi on a 50trim which bumped it up to 26-27, all on a stock longblock. And I sprayed a lot. Well over 100 track passes. And she took every bit of it and wanted more. No guarantee you'll have the same luck though. Just watch af, knock, timing...all that. Be smart about it, and do it right, and N20 is a great power adder.
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I didn't read through anyone's posts...but I sprayed a 75 shot on top of 24psi on a 50trim which bumped it up to 26-27, all on a stock longblock. And I sprayed a lot. Well over 100 track passes. And she took every bit of it and wanted more. No guarantee you'll have the same luck though. Just watch af, knock, timing...all that. Be smart about it, and do it right, and N20 is a great power adder.
That's good to hear.
I was spraying on the stocker, but I'm finishing up a 50T install and have no idea of what to do pertaining the nitrous sytem that's still on my car.
I guess once I get a tune, I'll jet the 55 shot and see what happens.
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23psi too much boost with 55 shot ?
359hp and 440tq. Nitrous! my cure for depresion.
. once the nitrous hits its going to bring the boost up a few lbs. tune the car off the bottle on the set boost then spray. hope this helps 
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