hmm damn then this a hard decision. i enjoy the casual highway run but i also looking more towards track time than anything at this moment. i am getting her ready for the summer at the track. i have rode in a 30r and i will say its very impressive although i cannot compare it to anything else because i have not rode in a 50 trim or other big turbo srt. i live in a decent size city nothing huge like dallas/ft worth so therefore theres not much srts here. and i know this is about turbos but what is a good problem solver for traction issues on a big turbo car? TCS? i am talking if i was on the street at the track i know the solution but as far as street goes what is there?
I think if you were ever in a 3076 car your outlook will soon change on how slow it's spool is also Athlete
brake boosting and top end FTW
Tcglass your right I have never been in 3076r thats why my post said thats just my opinion. but it only makes sense that the 50 trim bb will spool faster than the 76R. But I have wasted 71R's and 50Trims on my stock turbo. I know enough to know. even with my 2871R im getting away from 50trims and 76R's. now Im in no way implying that the 50 makes more power. on a run long enough the 76R should be better. but who gets to run that long. Well in L.A we don't get that kinda of run time. so Cars that take time to get to max horse power get embaressed by smaller quicker spooling turbo cars. Ive searched the internet and have consistantly seen the 50trims running faster than the 76R's. (look for yourself tell me if im lying. talk is cheap where I come from.) im thinking thats cause the 50 gets into its power band faster and the varied HP diffrence is not enough for the 76 to really show that it make more power. most races are quick spurts and its over. so in that quick spurt your car had better be on it. there is know time to wait. and with street driving you dont want to have to wait for big power . Its a compramise TC. and we are talking about a street monster. not a long hwy touring car. Most 76R's are running 11.9 1/4's, while 50's are anout 11.7 or better. so you do the math.
Check this vid. 76 vs a 50. silver car has the 50 in it. 2 big turbo SRT-4 dbb50 trim (silver) vs. 3076r (- Video
This is in fact where people like Pumpkin/Drastic were useful, search posts from him and the guys at Rage Tek, where you see at these BIG dyno numbers from these little turbo's get shot down, the fact is alot of these places want you to buy their stuff, and they dress it all up with correction factors/smoothing to make the numbers look alot better than they are, thats why Nemo calls his dyno the "heart breaker", because alot of these places (i won't give names, you can figure it out) come out with numbers that are absolutly ridiculous
You are counting out alot of factors in these races also, Driver error, supporting mods, boost, tune, hell there is a video of a DCR built car with a 2.6, 60-1 and all kinds of mods floating around that gets demolished by a stock turbo car, like i said the 50 trim is a basic upgrade turbo, and you CANNOT say a 50 trim is the best street turbo, there are way to many determining factors to say it's because of the turbo... I can say this I can't find a 50 trim car that runs a 10.95 on here, can you? And this car is driven daily, I know we use to be best friends... The fact that the 50 trim is a 46 lb/min turbo and the 3076 is a 52 lb/min turbo says alot... Now wether people can use it or not is a different story...
A 50 trim is a nice bolt on turbo, but you build two cars exactly the same, putting each one of the turbos on these two cars and the 3076 will walk it, no questions asked... and the 3076 spools as fast if not faster than the 50 trim because it is ball bearing...
straight from AGP:
GT3076R: This is probably the best matched ball bearing turbo for the 2.4L motor for street/strip purposes. It spools fast, and makes great power at all rpm levels and all boost levels. The turbo has a 52lb/min 56 trim compressor wheel in a 4” inlet port shroud compressor housing to minimize the chance of compressor surge. The turbine wheel is the standard 84 trim GT30. This turbo is perfect for those wanting to make big power on pump gas and go to the track once in a while at run some 11's. Full boost should be right around 3100-3200rpms with a .63 A/R turbine housing. On our test cars, we've pulled over 420whp on pump gas at 23psi. The maximum boost is around 33psi where we have seen 520whp. If these numbers are big enough for you, then look no further and order the 3076R. It’s kind of like the good ‘ol 50 trim standard bearing turbo we’ve grown to love over the years, however the 3076R has a little more balls. We recommend this turbo in a .63 A/R turbine housing. This turbo is also known as the GT30R and GT3052.
50 trim: This is the best matched turbo for the 2.4L motor for maximum power with the stock rev limiter. This turbo is perfect for those wanting to make big power on pump gas. Full boost should be right around 3100rpm in a .48a/r turbine housing and 3500rpm in a .63a/r. The difference being about 30-40whp less when peaked out on race gas for the .48a/r, but with the faster spool the .48 is nicer for pump gas street driving. On our test cars, we've pulled over 420whp on pump gas at 23psi. The maximum boost is around 30psi where we have seen 500+whp with the .63a/r. The ballbearing option is really nice on this turbo if you can afford it but when combined with the .48a/r will surge a little under high load low RPM conditions.
AGP says the 3076 spools faster than the 50 also, its all in what you want and what you want to spend, however AGP also says that the S256 is a better option and makes more power than a 50 trim everywhere, about 10%... And the fact is you will never get the full potential out of any turbo without the "supporting mods" necessary
So far with the S256-RS, we've barely even pushed this combination, but we've seen 540whp and 5355wtq at a very conservative 25psi where we ran out of fuel. With a proper fuel setup, this turbo will produce 550whp.
This combination has been coined the name the Extended Tip 50 trim. It takes our tried and true AGP 50 trim and makes about 10% more power across the board with very similar spoolup to a standard bearing AGP 50 trim. The S256-RS is not ball bearing and is not offered in a ball bearing center section. This combo reaches 20psi of boost around 3600rpm on a car with your basic mod list, and can be a couple hundred rpm quicker with a built block and headwork.
2003 Neon SRT4 - AGP 50 trim, DiabloSport Predator AND SAFC, 650cc's, home made return line, walbro, MPx FMIC, 5 layer HG, BC 2mm+ valves,self tuned...The kill list is long, but has come to an end. Now lets begin the quest for deep 10's...pump gas nitrous assisted
the AGP 50 trim is a 50lb/min turbo...And they've said over and over that the 50 trim will outperform the 3076R on pump gas
let's clarify for those just now tuning in that we are talking about a dbb 50 and not a standard. Also, the gap between the two closes as you add more boost. At 28 and above I'm gonna put my money on the 3076r
There are to many things we don't know about the op's car to determine the best turbo. So if he can post a mods list and exactly what he wants then we can pick a turbo. My car has not been beat on the street by a turbo 4 cylinder yet and I have a pretty big turbo. I am not going to get into this pissing match but I will say this is some major b/s being said.
I can tottaly believe that. but thats not the norm but there are exceptions. Most 50's are out rniAnng 76's. do research. Im still looking for 76's that on average are running bettr et's than 50 trims or just out running 50's on the fwy. ther are a couple 76's handling business. but on average the 50 are showing that they are faster. So for power to money ratio 50 trim IMO...
These types of results are happening everywhere. I think the 76 is a bust for garret but they seem to have made up for it with the 35R.
What do my research? I'm sorry but that was done years ago and thats why I chose the 30r over the 50trim. Plus using rj-lo's video is not a good example since his car is not a normal 50trim. YOU do your research before you say its a fact. And where is everywhere? I have personally seen a lot of slow 50trims so what point does that comment make?
Ok here is another reference...4U2NV has a gt37 turbo fully built motor (700hp+). Now with that said the dyno video showed he hit full boost around 4300-4500rpm and 7k redline. There is a video of him racing a 50trim on the street demolishing it with no problem from the get go. It proves if you know how to drive your car spool time doesn't matter for anything. Its all in the driver. With your theory of faster spooling turbo's, the 50trim should have beat it till the 37r hit full boost/powerband but it didn't explain that to us smart guy.
Supporting mods are a big factor in choosing a turbo. I personally don't think it really matters what turbo you have if you know how to drive and get into the powerband of the turbo. Its called brake boosting and WOT shifting...
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05 Black SRT-4 ACR
Last edited by matthew00029 : 11-30-2008 at 12:19 AM.
What do my research? I'm sorry but that was done years ago and thats why I chose the 30r over the 50trim. Plus using rj-lo's video is not a good example since his car is not a normal 50trim. YOU do your research before you say its a fact. And where is everywhere? I have personally seen a lot of slow 50trims so what point does that comment make?
Ok here is another reference...4U2NV has a gt37 turbo fully built motor (700hp+). Now with that said the dyno video showed he hit full boost around 4300-4500rpm and 7k redline. There is a video of him racing a 50trim on the street demolishing it with no problem from the get go. It proves if you know how to drive your car spool time doesn't matter for anything. Its all in the driver. With your theory of faster spooling turbo's, the 50trim should have beat it till the 37r hit full boost/powerband but it didn't explain that to us smart guy.
Supporting mods are a big factor in choosing a turbo. I personally don't think it really matters what turbo you have if you know how to drive and get into the powerband of the turbo. Its called brake boosting and WOT shifting...
fully built. We are talking about affordable sreet monsters! fully buit you can get any turbo to do what its supossed to. But i dont think thats in most peoples budget here, and it dont think it would be a daily driver. Again you are talking the exception. and send the link to that vid, I would love to se it. and you say not a normal 50. and do we know that the 30 was normal. Check drag times. Streetfire vids, hell youtube. just to name a few. they yield the same results. 50 trims running better than 30r on an overall average. and if your talking 700hp to 400 or less thats your explanation. and hopefully i dont need to explain that. lop sided Hp. please some one show me a 3076r handling business. its got to be one somewhere out there. So if someone has a whoop ass 76r that doing all these amazing things and and is a daily driven street monster hell just a street monster i want to see it. you put that built 30r on the street and have to use it in and out of traffic I bett its useless. still its uneven with more 50 trims running better than 76's. you can mention one or two. I'll give you that, but its not the norm. Show me more 76's running better than 50's then you have a valid point. but until its speculation. But please search the web deep and hard call your friends and turbo experts and they are all gonna say the same thing. 50 out performs the 76... but you have ample time to prove me wrong. no more speculation show me something. vids with drags traps and what not. no dynos please. something more concrete. hell I'll travel as far as las vegas to arizona down to san diego and up to sacramento to see a 76 (not built) run. hell i'll bring my slow 2871r as a rabbit! but im hearing a lot but havent seen a lot. and the 50 has proven itself time and time again...
fully built. We are talking about affordable sreet monsters! fully buit you can get any turbo to do what its supossed to. But i dont think thats in most peoples budget here, and it dont think it would be a daily driver. Again you are talking the exception. and send the link to that vid, I would love to se it. and you say not a normal 50. and do we know that the 30 was normal. Check drag times. Streetfire vids, hell youtube. just to name a few. they yield the same results. 50 trims running better than 30r on an overall average. and if your talking 700hp to 400 or less thats your explanation. and hopefully i dont need to explain that. lop sided Hp. please some one show me a 3076r handling business. its got to be one somewhere out there. So if someone has a whoop ass 76r that doing all these amazing things and and is a daily driven street monster hell just a street monster i want to see it. you put that built 30r on the street and have to use it in and out of traffic I bett its useless. still its uneven with more 50 trims running better than 76's. you can mention one or two. I'll give you that, but its not the norm. Show me more 76's running better than 50's then you have a valid point. but until its speculation. But please search the web deep and hard call your friends and turbo experts and they are all gonna say the same thing. 50 out performs the 76... but you have ample time to prove me wrong. no more speculation show me something. vids with drags traps and what not. no dynos please. something more concrete. hell I'll travel as far as las vegas to arizona down to san diego and up to sacramento to see a 76 (not built) run. hell i'll bring my slow 2871r as a rabbit! but im hearing a lot but havent seen a lot. and the 50 has proven itself time and time again...
You totally missed the point but that doesn't suprise me. Your totally biased for the 50trim. How about you show us the proof of the 50t being better and NOT using rj-lo's car as an example but until your than your just blowing smoke. You do use a lot of I thinks as well. Get some real experience and come back to the table not just internet racing...
And like I said it doesn't really matter as long as you know how to drive and have "proper" supporting mods.
What do my research? I'm sorry but that was done years ago and thats why I chose the 30r over the 50trim. Plus using rj-lo's video is not a good example since his car is not a normal 50trim. YOU do your research before you say its a fact. And where is everywhere? I have personally seen a lot of slow 50trims so what point does that comment make?
Ok here is another reference...4U2NV has a gt37 turbo fully built motor (700hp+). Now with that said the dyno video showed he hit full boost around 4300-4500rpm and 7k redline. There is a video of him racing a 50trim on the street demolishing it with no problem from the get go. It proves if you know how to drive your car spool time doesn't matter for anything. Its all in the driver. With your theory of faster spooling turbo's, the 50trim should have beat it till the 37r hit full boost/powerband but it didn't explain that to us smart guy.
Supporting mods are a big factor in choosing a turbo. I personally don't think it really matters what turbo you have if you know how to drive and get into the powerband of the turbo. Its called brake boosting and WOT shifting...
i think that really sums it up right there..and has made my decision.
Oh yeah! and thanks to several threads on the these forums I put down 391 wheel HP and 410 ft-lb of torque on my GT2871R with the diablo predator 93 perf oct tune that I modified to help get those numbers... and if you like I can post it.
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