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Old 11-05-2012, 02:07 PM   #61 (permalink)
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Quote: Originally Posted by srtmike04 View Post
Im far from jumping on a band wagon. My comments Were made purely based on the fact that u took what Kevin had posted out of context. I dont care if its u or dcr...or anyone else.....ill say the same shit if whats being said is takin out of context

I completely disagree with you. D-Srt is right by saying what he did, because their is Truff in it. Think about a Srt4 motor running 10k and a bearing goes bad... Bye bye internal parts.
What you think he just replaced a bearing or 2 and he back up running 10k. No that's why the new crank and other parts. I'm trying to explain why it happens and why it will happen again.

Let's take Kevin's pick H22 Honda motor along with the Srt4, the B16 Honda motor.
In this section we are going to talk about Mean Piston Speed at 10,000 Rpm

H22 motor @10,000 rpm with a 3.571 in stroke = 5950 Feet per Minute
Srt-4 motor @10,000 rpm with a 3.976 in stroke = 6626 Feet per Minute
Even a not so good H22 is better than a Srt4 @ 10,000Rpm

B16 motor @10,000 rpm with a 3.031 in stroke = 5051 Feet Per Minute

This is real engine talk, I hope you can see why you don't want or don't need... to run a Srt4 motor to 10k.
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Old 11-05-2012, 02:14 PM   #62 (permalink)
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Quote: Originally Posted by Bad98rt View Post
So what's wrong with eagle rods? How many have you seen bend? The 4G63 eagle rods have made 900hp on a few different evos an they are damn close in length (4g63- 5.906vs srt- 5.945)...the DCR 2.6 I purchased that seen 750hp and want even breathing hard has eagle rods in it...


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What's wrong with eagle rods? Nothing.

People take crap opinions, and run with them.

Are there stronger/sturdier rods? Yes, but those eagles will do 700+ without problems unlike what some nimrods tend to say on these forums.
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Old 11-05-2012, 02:16 PM   #63 (permalink)
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Quote: Originally Posted by D-SRT View Post

What's wrong with eagle rods? Nothing.

People take crap opinions, and run with them.

Are there stronger/sturdier rods? Yes, but those eagles will do 700+ without problems unlike what some nimrods tend to say on these forums.

Modernperformance states that they are good to 450 and it makes me laugh cause stock rods are good to that haha
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Old 11-05-2012, 02:18 PM   #64 (permalink)
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THIS (in bold).
Losing a bearing at 10k? Could be total bottom (and top) end destruction. It's not a simple bearing replacement. For a 'racer and engine builder' srtmike, you should know that.
KW also mentioned crank deflection. Crank deflection at 10k? Bye bye bedplate and torn up cylinder walls?

Nice to see some numbers put in here Racerx.

Quote: Originally Posted by Racerxvsspeedracer View Post
I completely disagree with you. D-Srt is right by saying what he did, because their is Truff in it. Think about a Srt4 motor running 10k and a bearing goes bad... Bye bye internal parts.
What you think he just replaced a bearing or 2 and he back up running 10k. No that's why the new crank and other parts. I'm trying to explain why it happens and why it will happen again.

Let's take Kevin's pick H22 Honda motor along with the Srt4, the B16 Honda motor.
In this section we are going to talk about Mean Piston Speed at 10,000 Rpm

H22 motor @10,000 rpm with a 3.571 in stroke = 5950 Feet per Minute
Srt-4 motor @10,000 rpm with a 3.976 in stroke = 6626 Feet per Minute
Even a not so good H22 is better than a Srt4 @ 10,000Rpm

B16 motor @10,000 rpm with a 3.031 in stroke = 5051 Feet Per Minute

This is real engine talk, I hope you can see why you don't want or don't need... to run a Srt4 motor to 10k.

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Old 11-05-2012, 02:21 PM   #65 (permalink)
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Quote: Originally Posted by Bad98rt View Post
Modernperformance states that they are good to 450 and it makes me laugh cause stock rods are good to that haha

It's sad. People read that, and run with it. Yea, maybe when Eagle's ran 5/16" there were issues, but since they upgraded their hardware to 3/8 2000's, (years ago!) the issues are non-existent.
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Old 11-05-2012, 02:28 PM   #66 (permalink)
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Old 11-05-2012, 02:45 PM   #67 (permalink)
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There's no need to de-stroke the Srt4, custom parts cost too much.
Keep it as simple as you can, and keep good parts cheap.
If you can't pick a turbo to work with a 8,500 rpm and break records, you're doing it backwards Imo.
You should make pleanty of power to get it done.
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Old 11-05-2012, 03:43 PM   #68 (permalink)
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Quote: Originally Posted by Bad98rt View Post
Modernperformance states that they are good to 450 and it makes me laugh cause stock rods are good to that haha

I have personally seen eagle rods pulled out of a block that made 7xx hp. The rods were not damaged in any way.
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Old 11-05-2012, 03:50 PM   #69 (permalink)
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So just a question what would you shift at on a b16 Turbo(for comparison perpouse a stock Srt turbo with low boost )? With stock bottom end and top end at a higher rpms on the Honda would the power fade off at like 5500 ? Or keep going cause of the normal powerband of the Honda? Just intreseted?
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Old 11-05-2012, 05:37 PM   #70 (permalink)
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Quote: Originally Posted by triangles View Post
So just a question what would you shift at on a b16 Turbo(for comparison perpouse a stock Srt turbo with low boost )? With stock bottom end and top end at a higher rpms on the Honda would the power fade off at like 5500 ? Or keep going cause of the normal powerband of the Honda? Just intreseted?

B16 should not be compared, I used it to show It's balanced Rod Ratio and short stroke... That's what makes a car rev happy.

Your shift point on any car should be right before hp drops, helps pick up the next gear in a good power band. But depending on what style of racing you do, it could be slightly different.
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Old 11-05-2012, 05:57 PM   #71 (permalink)
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Quote: Originally Posted by D-SRT View Post

What's wrong with eagle rods? Nothing.

People take crap opinions, and run with them.

Are there stronger/sturdier rods? Yes, but those eagles will do 700+ without problems unlike what some nimrods tend to say on these forums.

I really don't even know where on earth the Eagle myth started, but I can say i have NEVER had a failure with one and I've run them on three neon motors and a LS motor. All over 500whp, the most current one is close to 700whp already and will be over that soon. When paired with 625s, these things are a perfect rod to spin high. they are LIGHT, and sturdy. 450whp for an eagle rod is ridiculous. These rods can handle pretty much all but possibly 1% of neon owners needs on this earth including all out drag racers. I have no reason to run anything else and for 8,000RPM limits (like mine), light weight piston/rod balanced combos with an appropriately built head is, in my opinion, the ticket.
Destroked is better for higher RPM, but I can't help but wonder why the OP would imagine he needs more than 8000 rpm on the 2.4l? He would have to be building a very high air breathing monster to take advantage of such a high RPM limit, otherwise he is just blowing hot air and increasing back pressure.
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Old 11-05-2012, 06:29 PM   #72 (permalink)
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Now let's look at the 8,000-8500 rpm range for the Srt-4, here is a chart from before.
H22 motor @10,000 rpm with a 3.571 in stroke = 5950 Feet per Minute
Srt-4 motor @10,000 rpm with a 3.976 in stroke = 6626 Feet per Minute
Even a not so good H22 is better than a Srt4 @ 10,000Rpm

B16 motor @10,000 rpm with a 3.031 in stroke = 5051 Feet Per Minute

Srt-4 motor @8,500 rpm with 3.976 in stroke = 5632 Feet Per Minute
Srt-4 motor @8,000 rpm with 3.976 in stroke = 5301 Feet Per Minute

At this level of rpms vibrations are death. Piston speed plays a huge factor and you can see how rpms come into play. Keeping it under 8,500 will make the motor last longer and be safer. This is also why you want the best Rod ratio you can get.
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Old 11-05-2012, 09:42 PM   #73 (permalink)
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Quote: Originally Posted by D-SRT View Post
I didn't take anything out of context. Maybe you just don't know how to read properly and understand the context of the grammar used? I broke his quote down for you since you aren't capable to do so yourself.

He revved 10k 'without major issue'. STOCK crank. just smashed a few bearings here and there (yea sure, if I was a shop/vendor, I'd say that too, to cover my end). He didn't have his car/build last long enough to make a statement that revving to '10k' can be done without major issue. His car lasted half a season.

If that's what 10k revving shifts get you, then I and the majority of the avg builder will pass. Additionally, he said nothing of the sort of what type of oiling mods, internals, or ANYthing that was needed to be capable of revving to 10k aside from spitting bearings out. If you throw blank statements around like that, yea I'm going to question them, it's a public forum.

Lmao! read your quotes and responses. Kevin posted he did what he did without major issue. When you quoted that posted you said he did it with NO issue. Which clearly wasn't what Kevin wrote. But Hey you must be the genius right? So have at it. I never gave u shit for questioning it. Just changing the terms of what was posted. And now im the one gettin shit? Lulz!
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Old 11-05-2012, 10:48 PM   #74 (permalink)
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Quote: Originally Posted by srtmike04 View Post
Lmao! read your quotes and responses. Kevin posted he did what he did without major issue. When you quoted that posted you said he did it with NO issue. Which clearly wasn't what Kevin wrote. But Hey you must be the genius right? So have at it. I never gave u shit for questioning it. Just changing the terms of what was posted. And now im the one gettin shit? Lulz!

Oh ok, because spinning bearings at 10,000rpms on stock crank/stroke is just 'no major issue'...right? Oh yea! no big deal brotha! just a rod bearing getting tossed out that bad boy at 10k! Crank and/or rods are toast at that point. who knows how many times that happened before he figured out he better invest in a crank and/or RA-ratio.

Jesus. Let me get vendorship, a gold name-tag, and I can sell you a bridge for $100.


A mod might as well close this up.
Kevin Warren resorted to talking crap on Facebook instead of actually carrying out a discussion or rebutting that the 10,000rpm didnt spit out bearings every other pass, while his clinger-ons jumped on and claimed how SRTF sucks. Only one shooting straight are Racerx and I, I feel. I don't sugar coat, and I don't band wagon so maybe that's why I doubt and ask questions instead of just believing every word said from a vendor.


FWIW, I'm not hating on KW. If he wants to aim for 10,000rpm and have it actually be reliable, great. It only furthers the development for our car, which is cool.

Just don't say oh yea i ran 10,000rpm no major issue...i just crushed bearings here and there but it can be done!
NO! if you are toasting bearings (and inevitably other parts in consequence) in a short span that tells you there are problems that need to be addressed.


I just don't want to see clinger-ons posting in a month "oh yea, Kevin Warren said you can rev out to 10,000 so it must be ok" and watching a helpless uneducated soul make a thread a week later asking why his bottom end is in pieces.

Cheers
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Old 11-05-2012, 11:21 PM   #75 (permalink)
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Quote: Originally Posted by D-SRT View Post
Oh ok, because spinning bearings at 10,000rpms on stock crank/stroke is just 'no major issue'...right? Oh yea! no big deal brotha! just a rod bearing getting tossed out that bad boy at 10k! Crank and/or rods are toast at that point. who knows how many times that happened before he figured out he better invest in a crank and/or RA-ratio.

Jesus. Let me get vendorship, a gold name-tag, and I can sell you a bridge for $100.


A mod might as well close this up.
Kevin Warren resorted to talking crap on Facebook instead of actually carrying out a discussion or rebutting that the 10,000rpm didnt spit out bearings every other pass, while his clinger-ons jumped on and claimed how SRTF sucks. Only one shooting straight are Racerx and I, I feel. I don't sugar coat, and I don't band wagon so maybe that's why I doubt and ask questions instead of just believing every word said from a vendor.


FWIW, I'm not hating on KW. If he wants to aim for 10,000rpm and have it actually be reliable, great. It only furthers the development for our car, which is cool.

Just don't say oh yea i ran 10,000rpm no major issue...i just crushed bearings here and there but it can be done!
NO! if you are toasting bearings (and inevitably other parts in consequence) in a short span that tells you there are problems that need to be addressed.


I just don't want to see clinger-ons posting in a month "oh yea, Kevin Warren said you can rev out to 10,000 so it must be ok" and watching a helpless uneducated soul make a thread a week later asking why his bottom end is in pieces.

Cheers
:beer:

This post is full of WIN, and pretty much sums the whole thread up.

I saw Kevins facebook post as well. I don't know the guy personally, but I like the work he does and he has some cool ideas and setups. I'm glad he's trying to push the envelope, and I hope he gets everything figured out and is a top competitor for the upcoming season.

We really don't have many guys left in our platform that are really trying to compete at that level, so I think we should support anyone that does.
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