interested in 2.3l de stroke kit - Page 4 - Dodge SRT Forum
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post #46 of 160 (permalink) Old 11-05-2012, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by LinkLow View Post
Wait, you're wanting to INCREASE the revolutions per minute, but LOWER the "piston speed"? Please explain how this works.
No offense, but I see a vendor tag, and a DS avitar.... I hope you are not a tuner, and don't know the reason for the above statement....

To clarify, and put it into the correct context (hopefully)... Yes, if you compare a destroked motor @10K, it will have a higher piston speed than a stock stroke motor at say 8K. What he is saying is at THE SAME rev, a destroked motor will have a slower piston speed ATDC. Why is this good? More time to sense knock, and your tuning window is enlarged because of that.

Make sense?

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post #47 of 160 (permalink) Old 11-05-2012, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by a853rox View Post
No offense, but I see a vendor tag, and a DS avitar.... I hope you are not a tuner, and don't know the reason for the above statement....

To clarify, and put it into the correct context (hopefully)... Yes, if you compare a destroked motor @10K, it will have a higher piston speed than a stock stroke motor at say 8K. What he is saying is at THE SAME rev, a destroked motor will have a slower piston speed ATDC. Why is this good? More time to sense knock, and your tuning window is enlarged because of that.

Make sense?
wouldn't using a longer rod thereby increasing piston dwell also do the same thing for increasing the window?
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post #48 of 160 (permalink) Old 11-05-2012, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by srtmike04 View Post
If you read Kevin's post right.....he said without major issue. And when u build motors for a living and race like most of us do....losing a bearing isnt a that big of a deal. Specially when you're doin what Kevin's car does.

Where do u get the idea he said its ok to Rev a stock 2.4 like he does? Stop stinging out whats said and learn how to read

Yea I'm sure he just only messed up a bearing or two revving to 10k stock stroke/RA.

9/10 vendors/shops aren't going to be going around posting about catastrophic motor failures they've had. It's bad for image. It's bad for Business.

Let's watch KW run atleast a SEASON running 10k 'no problem' first before jumping on any bandwagon just because of a name. As far as I know, he's gotten maybe a handful of passes, and the car ended up not seeing the road for the past 3 years.

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post #49 of 160 (permalink) Old 11-05-2012, 11:25 AM
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im confused, ATDC the piston isnt moving. There is a measurement of how long its not moving for, typically this time period effects the torque and speed the engine revs up. Never heard of it for tuning purposes, news to me. The faster the piston is moving pre and post TDC, effects the longevity of the pin and rod, as its literally yanking and pushing it so fast the faster its moving. Having a longer period of no movement ATDC helps cut down the wear and tear.

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post #50 of 160 (permalink) Old 11-05-2012, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by kevinwarren240 View Post
First off people that don't know how The Srt motor reacts ie, spool, transient response to a big turbo that has the proper back pressure shouldn't try to advise anyone what to rev to. That's the trouble with this forum anymore people that haven't done it telling people that want to try other things, then act like srt4 gurus because they read a post or bolted on a turbo and made 400hp and automatically got a degree in bs. Get out there try new things you would be surprised what actually works instead of trying to read about it. The rod ratio isn't horrible it is the stock crank flex even nitrided hell the h22 Honda gets revved to 10k and they are a 1.49 ratio I believe.


Original poster keep at it trying to be different no need to conform to anyone especially people that say something but never done anything themselves. Ps ask redsled what he really revs
You're wrong Kevin, just because vendors have lots of $ and do big hp..doesn't mean their doing it right. There is a science to building a high rev motor, not slapping in parts and a big turbo. Waiting for it to blow up then fix the part that broke. That's why this fourm is a little behind some guys don't listen to reason and logical advice hint hint.
I bet money just tossing in your crank isn't going to help you rev to 10k all day every day.

Now let me show you how you're wrong...
Honda H22 Rod Ratio that you don't know but think you do. Don't say it unless you know 100%.

H22A ROD LENGTH: 5.63 STROKE: 3.571 BORE SIZE: 3.425 (87MM) COMPRESSION HEIGHTS:1.222"

= 158 Rod Ratio not bad to begin with and way better than ours.
This is engine building the right way, $ is the only thing that stops me from showing what I can do. But my knowledge is priceless, my advice if you're blowing motors ,and parts are exploding... Rethinking what you're doing would be a good start. There is a science to safely Reving a car that high. I hope to show what I can do soon, but I only got to prove to myself.

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post #51 of 160 (permalink) Old 11-05-2012, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by a853rox View Post
No offense, but I see a vendor tag, and a DS avitar.... I hope you are not a tuner, and don't know the reason for the above statement....

To clarify, and put it into the correct context (hopefully)... Yes, if you compare a destroked motor @10K, it will have a higher piston speed than a stock stroke motor at say 8K. What he is saying is at THE SAME rev, a destroked motor will have a slower piston speed ATDC. Why is this good? More time to sense knock, and your tuning window is enlarged because of that.

Make sense?
Not sure know how you misunderstood what I typed Bob, maybe I mis-worded it.

I was NOT comparing a de-stroked engine to a stock 2.4.

I was ONLY stating that more RPMs = greater piston speeds, NOT comparing a 2.3 to a 2.4 or higher.

I believe we're on the same page? Not exactly sure why you made that comment about me tuning cars...

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post #52 of 160 (permalink) Old 11-05-2012, 12:26 PM
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More stroke equal more distances. Rpms can still be the same but with the same time with different distances = more speed (piston acceleration)

The time it has to get from point a to point b will have to be a faster acceleration of the piston if the stroke is longer. Bc at 8000 rpms the piston has to see tdc 8000 times.

Weither it travel 4 inches up and down or 2.




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post #53 of 160 (permalink) Old 11-05-2012, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by 04blusrt_4 View Post
in the real world, i dont think that change in bore/stroke really can allow another 2k in rpms, so I wouldnt get all hung up on the crank and rod combo as your only impediment. You really need to also look at the crank overlap, shocked no one even mentioned so far.

No matter what, you need billet crank, with ARP 625's on mains and rods, and whatever rods are lightweight enough but also strong enough (been outta this world for a bit, no idea whats out there, EAGLES are a no no), and same on the piston.

Do all those things, and rod ratio becomes A LOT less important, 0.05 change dont mean squat. When you've already blown the $7-8k on just the short block, you can rev it to 12k if you want.

Last thing ill say to the OP, youre not a VICTIM to your own turbo choice, you should never be saying "if my turbo is still making power to xxxrpms..." If you dont know how to pick a turbo to your goals and engine build, make the call and let someone pick it for you. WIthin 500rpms you should be able to match a turbo perfectly.
So what's wrong with eagle rods? How many have you seen bend? The 4G63 eagle rods have made 900hp on a few different evos an they are damn close in length (4g63- 5.906vs srt- 5.945)...the DCR 2.6 I purchased that seen 750hp and want even breathing hard has eagle rods in it...


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post #54 of 160 (permalink) Old 11-05-2012, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by 04blusrt_4 View Post
im confused, ATDC the piston isnt moving. There is a measurement of how long its not moving for, typically this time period effects the torque and speed the engine revs up. Never heard of it for tuning purposes, news to me. The faster the piston is moving pre and post TDC, effects the longevity of the pin and rod, as its literally yanking and pushing it so fast the faster its moving. Having a longer period of no movement ATDC helps cut down the wear and tear.
Now apply what you just said.... and call it piston dwell And by your own admission there, you can see how knowing what the motor is doing around ATDC, will effect performance and longevity of the motor (read tuning).

Make sense?

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post #55 of 160 (permalink) Old 11-05-2012, 01:57 PM
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learnin a lot from this thread

Rare Rb1 radio for sale aux and 6 cd
http://www.srtforums.com/forums/f418...-input-635972/
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post #56 of 160 (permalink) Old 11-05-2012, 02:11 PM
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Wow this thread went from

Looking to.de stroke the 2.4 to a 2.3.. TO

ATDC piston movement, travel, velocity, heat, wear, and how RPM's make a difference...LOL

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post #57 of 160 (permalink) Old 11-05-2012, 02:25 PM
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Yea ^^^^ that sounds about right lol. But, great read nonetheless

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post #58 of 160 (permalink) Old 11-05-2012, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by D-SRT View Post
Yea I'm sure he just only messed up a bearing or two revving to 10k stock stroke/RA.

9/10 vendors/shops aren't going to be going around posting about catastrophic motor failures they've had. It's bad for image. It's bad for Business.

Let's watch KW run atleast a SEASON running 10k 'no problem' first before jumping on any bandwagon just because of a name. As far as I know, he's gotten maybe a handful of passes, and the car ended up not seeing the road for the past 3 years.
Im far from jumping on a band wagon. My comments Were made purely based on the fact that u took what Kevin had posted out of context. I dont care if its u or dcr...or anyone else.....ill say the same shit if whats being said is takin out of context
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post #59 of 160 (permalink) Old 11-05-2012, 02:35 PM
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^^^ this. I had heard of all the drivetrain problems. But it aint my car and isnt my business to discuss.
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post #60 of 160 (permalink) Old 11-05-2012, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by srtmike04 View Post
Im far from jumping on a band wagon. My comments Were made purely based on the fact that u took what Kevin had posted out of context. I dont care if its u or dcr...or anyone else.....ill say the same shit if whats being said is takin out of context

Quote:
If you read Kevin's post right.....he said without major issue. And when u build motors for a living and race like most of us do....losing a bearing isnt a that big of a deal. Specially when you're doin what Kevin's car does.

Where do u get the idea he said its ok to Rev a stock 2.4 like he does? Stop stinging out whats said and learn how to read
I didn't take anything out of context. Maybe you just don't know how to read properly and understand the context of the grammar used? I broke his quote down for you since you aren't capable to do so yourself.

He revved 10k 'without major issue'. STOCK crank. just smashed a few bearings here and there (yea sure, if I was a shop/vendor, I'd say that too, to cover my end). He didn't have his car/build last long enough to make a statement that revving to '10k' can be done without major issue. His car lasted half a season.

If that's what 10k revving shifts get you, then I and the majority of the avg builder will pass. Additionally, he said nothing of the sort of what type of oiling mods, internals, or ANYthing that was needed to be capable of revving to 10k aside from spitting bearings out. If you throw blank statements around like that, yea I'm going to question them, it's a public forum.

Quote:
I have revved The 2.4l to 10k without major issue, I have a billet crank now to see
if crank deflection is kept to a minimum
I have smashed a bearing or two revving The stock crank that high
billet 2.4 should make it much easier on bearings.

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