Holy SMOKES! - Page 3 - SRT Forums

a853rox · 04-26-2012, 10:13 PM

also did you use new crush washers, and verify there are no external leaks on the turbo?

Ude Lose · 04-27-2012, 04:36 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by a853rox

I did reply in the PM as well, but i figure I would explain what we did while diagnosing your setup.

-Part dimensions (turbine shaft, and turbine seal bore in CHRA) were inspected for wear, and dimensions, all were within spec.
-Turbo was rebuild, and balance was verified
-Turbo was run in our VSR balancer with heated, pressurized oil, with no leaking past the seal.

On all accounts, with multiple checks, the turbo is good in our eyes.

Possible causes of the continued smoking:
-too much crank case pressure causing more oil than normal to bypass through the piston seal (very rare btw)
-oil drain tube blockage causing the same (more common)
-too much oil feed pressure (normally not an issue with journal bearing turbos)
-you still have residual oil in the manifold and dump tube that needs to clear out
-you have oil leaking from elsewhere in the system like valve stem seals or cracked ringlands causing severe blow by.

Now im not sure what other testing you have completed, but I would recommend looking in other areas to ensure that your car is tip top. We did as thorough a check on the turbo as possible, and it's good brotha!

Certainly keep me informed of what you find Richard!

-Bob

Thanks for the further diagnosis on your end Bob, its much appreciated.

Every part from top to bottom in my engine is brand new and only has 450 of soft brake in driving on each component. You guys did the ported head and valves no longer than 6 months ago. I had installed the following at your shop while the head was there.....
Map S3 head with
Brass valve guides
New valve seals
Rev+1 intake +2 exhaust valves
Rev dual titanium valve springs
Rev retainers
With.... (installed at my local machine shop were the pistons/rings and bearings)................
Bc S3 cams
Arp head studs
JE 8.5:1 pistons
Eagle Rods
Acl rod bearings
Deleted balance shafts(done by my during engine assembly,yes i closed the oil port with a screw as instructed in the how to)
Also I have checked the oil return line for blockage and I found no obstructions. I used a wire coat hanger and heard it go all the way down to the oil pan.
Also I would like to point out this fact that, every time I simply start the engine, I can go and remove the band clamp and there will be oil in it. I mean it can run and get to normal temperature and then shut it off and then there will be oil in the band clamp.
I will be doing a compression and also a leak down test on sunday. I will post the results once they are both completed.
Once the engine was started after installing the turbo after I got it back form map, I would let the car warm up and idle and my autometer electrical oil pressure gauge that I have installed in the head will have a normal reading of 18-22 psi at idle.
So this is where I stand. I expect good things from this sundays tests as the engine is brand new.

Ude Lose · 04-27-2012, 04:38 PM

Yes the oil crush washers ontop of the turbo is new. So is the oil return line gasket.

srt4me18 · 04-27-2012, 06:23 PM

bent valve or turbo needs rebuild

TenZen · 04-27-2012, 06:53 PM

Quote: Originally Posted by srt4me18

bent valve or turbo needs rebuild

Read post #32. Can't be the turbo.

Ude Lose · 04-28-2012, 11:19 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by TenZen

Read post #32. Can't be the turbo.

Valves are brand new and the car runs fine except for the smoke

TenZen · 04-28-2012, 01:11 PM

Would putting in any tracer dye in the oil help?

Ude Lose · 04-28-2012, 07:45 PM

I'm honestly not very familiar with tracer dye

TenZen · 04-28-2012, 08:14 PM

I may be calling it the wrong thing. Pretty much the same stuff they use for A/C leaks, but made for oil. Have to use a black light to see it, and you are able to see where the leaks are coming from.

Ude Lose · 04-29-2012, 08:14 AM

Hmm interesting. I've never heard of that before

Ude Lose · 04-30-2012, 07:11 AM

Compression test came back even on all 4 cylinders. Leak down test showed no leakage in any cylinder.

Sota · 04-30-2012, 08:46 AM

more and more I'm thinking valve guides and/or seals.

Ude Lose · 04-30-2012, 08:51 AM

Quote: Originally Posted by Sota

more and more I'm thinking valve guides and/or seals.

I sure hope not.

ill be sending the turbo back down to MAP this week.
I have pictures that i havent got to post yet from yesterday, showing oil on the exhaust blades of the turbo. Ill post them when i get home from work.

Sota · 04-30-2012, 08:53 AM

you said there's oil in the manifold itself?
is there oil in all 4 exhaust ports on the head?

Sota · 04-30-2012, 08:58 AM

also have you poked into the intake plumbing yet to see if there's oil there.

04-27-2012, 04:36 PM	#32 (permalink)
Ude Lose SRTforums Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Member Number: 4562 Location: 845 N.Y. Posts: 2,074	Quote: Originally Posted by a853rox I did reply in the PM as well, but i figure I would explain what we did while diagnosing your setup. -Part dimensions (turbine shaft, and turbine seal bore in CHRA) were inspected for wear, and dimensions, all were within spec. -Turbo was rebuild, and balance was verified -Turbo was run in our VSR balancer with heated, pressurized oil, with no leaking past the seal. On all accounts, with multiple checks, the turbo is good in our eyes. Possible causes of the continued smoking: -too much crank case pressure causing more oil than normal to bypass through the piston seal (very rare btw) -oil drain tube blockage causing the same (more common) -too much oil feed pressure (normally not an issue with journal bearing turbos) -you still have residual oil in the manifold and dump tube that needs to clear out -you have oil leaking from elsewhere in the system like valve stem seals or cracked ringlands causing severe blow by. Now im not sure what other testing you have completed, but I would recommend looking in other areas to ensure that your car is tip top. We did as thorough a check on the turbo as possible, and it's good brotha! Certainly keep me informed of what you find Richard! -Bob Thanks for the further diagnosis on your end Bob, its much appreciated. Every part from top to bottom in my engine is brand new and only has 450 of soft brake in driving on each component. You guys did the ported head and valves no longer than 6 months ago. I had installed the following at your shop while the head was there..... Map S3 head with Brass valve guides New valve seals Rev+1 intake +2 exhaust valves Rev dual titanium valve springs Rev retainers With.... (installed at my local machine shop were the pistons/rings and bearings)................ Bc S3 cams Arp head studs JE 8.5:1 pistons Eagle Rods Acl rod bearings Deleted balance shafts(done by my during engine assembly,yes i closed the oil port with a screw as instructed in the how to) Also I have checked the oil return line for blockage and I found no obstructions. I used a wire coat hanger and heard it go all the way down to the oil pan. Also I would like to point out this fact that, every time I simply start the engine, I can go and remove the band clamp and there will be oil in it. I mean it can run and get to normal temperature and then shut it off and then there will be oil in the band clamp. I will be doing a compression and also a leak down test on sunday. I will post the results once they are both completed. Once the engine was started after installing the turbo after I got it back form map, I would let the car warm up and idle and my autometer electrical oil pressure gauge that I have installed in the head will have a normal reading of 18-22 psi at idle. So this is where I stand. I expect good things from this sundays tests as the engine is brand new. Last edited by Ude Lose; 05-06-2012 at 11:54 AM.

04-27-2012, 06:23 PM	#34 (permalink)
srt4me18 SRTforums Member SRT of the Month Join Date: Feb 2007 Member Number: 50825 Location: Milwaukee Posts: 4,310	bent valve or turbo needs rebuild __________________ TUNED/BUILT by REALTUNE PERFORMANCE 10.15@144 (1.61 60') Race gas 10.98@126 (1.62 60') 93 octane /low boost best 60' 1.57 Realtune "Crushing competition not bank accounts."

04-27-2012, 06:53 PM	#35 (permalink)
TenZen SRTforums Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Member Number: 84907 Location: Radcliff, KY Posts: 299	Quote: Originally Posted by srt4me18 bent valve or turbo needs rebuild Read post #32. Can't be the turbo. __________________ Quote: Originally Posted by brokestatus Just because I love 14 y/o girls does not make me a pedophile. It makes me an OG. Like, pilgrim status.

04-28-2012, 01:11 PM	#37 (permalink)
TenZen SRTforums Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Member Number: 84907 Location: Radcliff, KY Posts: 299	Would putting in any tracer dye in the oil help? __________________ Quote: Originally Posted by brokestatus Just because I love 14 y/o girls does not make me a pedophile. It makes me an OG. Like, pilgrim status.

04-28-2012, 08:14 PM	#39 (permalink)
TenZen SRTforums Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Member Number: 84907 Location: Radcliff, KY Posts: 299	I may be calling it the wrong thing. Pretty much the same stuff they use for A/C leaks, but made for oil. Have to use a black light to see it, and you are able to see where the leaks are coming from. __________________ Quote: Originally Posted by brokestatus Just because I love 14 y/o girls does not make me a pedophile. It makes me an OG. Like, pilgrim status.

04-26-2012, 10:13 PM	#31 (permalink)
a853rox SRTforums Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Member Number: 1907 Location: In the shop! Posts: 3,583	also did you use new crush washers, and verify there are no external leaks on the turbo?

04-27-2012, 04:38 PM	#33 (permalink)
Ude Lose SRTforums Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Member Number: 4562 Location: 845 N.Y. Posts: 2,074	Yes the oil crush washers ontop of the turbo is new. So is the oil return line gasket.

04-28-2012, 11:19 AM	#36 (permalink)
Ude Lose SRTforums Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Member Number: 4562 Location: 845 N.Y. Posts: 2,074	Quote: Originally Posted by TenZen Read post #32. Can't be the turbo. Valves are brand new and the car runs fine except for the smoke

04-28-2012, 07:45 PM	#38 (permalink)
Ude Lose SRTforums Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Member Number: 4562 Location: 845 N.Y. Posts: 2,074	I'm honestly not very familiar with tracer dye

04-29-2012, 08:14 AM	#40 (permalink)
Ude Lose SRTforums Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Member Number: 4562 Location: 845 N.Y. Posts: 2,074	Hmm interesting. I've never heard of that before

04-30-2012, 07:11 AM	#41 (permalink)
Ude Lose SRTforums Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Member Number: 4562 Location: 845 N.Y. Posts: 2,074	Compression test came back even on all 4 cylinders. Leak down test showed no leakage in any cylinder.

04-30-2012, 08:46 AM	#42 (permalink)
Sota SRTforums Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Member Number: 31159 Location: Union County NJ Posts: 11,255	more and more I'm thinking valve guides and/or seals. __________________ LIFETIME NRA MEMBER SUPPORT THE SECOND AMMENDMENT IN ITS FULLEST I'll be out most of the year it looks like. call it a "building" year. those who need me know where and how to find me.

04-30-2012, 08:51 AM	#43 (permalink)
Ude Lose SRTforums Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Member Number: 4562 Location: 845 N.Y. Posts: 2,074	Quote: Originally Posted by Sota more and more I'm thinking valve guides and/or seals. I sure hope not. ill be sending the turbo back down to MAP this week. I have pictures that i havent got to post yet from yesterday, showing oil on the exhaust blades of the turbo. Ill post them when i get home from work.

04-30-2012, 08:53 AM	#44 (permalink)
Sota SRTforums Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Member Number: 31159 Location: Union County NJ Posts: 11,255	you said there's oil in the manifold itself? is there oil in all 4 exhaust ports on the head? __________________ LIFETIME NRA MEMBER SUPPORT THE SECOND AMMENDMENT IN ITS FULLEST I'll be out most of the year it looks like. call it a "building" year. those who need me know where and how to find me.

04-30-2012, 08:58 AM	#45 (permalink)
Sota SRTforums Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Member Number: 31159 Location: Union County NJ Posts: 11,255	also have you poked into the intake plumbing yet to see if there's oil there. __________________ LIFETIME NRA MEMBER SUPPORT THE SECOND AMMENDMENT IN ITS FULLEST I'll be out most of the year it looks like. call it a "building" year. those who need me know where and how to find me.

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