I need some help guys with what piston / rod combo to use in my car. I have read up on all the stickies, and I know the low down on which rods are the strongest. I am not so clear on pistons, I dont see a clear winner as far as STRENGTH, clearly there are pistons that are customized for power and strengthening known weaknesses in each case, but doesnt mean once you take that customized piston and compare against what was a stronger piston to begin with that there is a clear winner.
My build is going to be (I am guessing) around 550whp but with a super long powerband, good torque, and not really HIGH rpms (max around 7k). I am prob going to get a custom cam grind to help extend the rpms past 6500, all the while try to tune for a 3500-3600 full spool (30psi). It will take a lot of work and prob a lot of tries to get there, but thats what I am going for.
But the reason I am creating this thread is because I need this thing to be bullit proof daily driveable in heavy traffic and stop and go style accelerations. I don't want a track queen that needs to be freshened up every 10k miles. I need the build to go 50k miles or more.
So my first attempt to pick something durable brought me to pauter rods and Wiseco pistons. Second choice seemed to be Crower rods and JE pistons (MPX Combo). Third Choice seemed to be Manley turbo tuff rods and CP pistons. Final was BC rods with pretty much any piston.
I am trying to get the lightest rod and piston combo i can, since I believe this will help with longevity on the bearings and crank.
Also last question is the oil pump, coated sounds great but is it really needed if I am keeping decently modest rpm ranges?
After looking around on pistons I really like wiseco & cp pistons I would be happy with either. Also I would definitely get the dcr oil pump its so much easier to install on an engine stand. Even if you have a rock solid tune and never see detonation having a weak link will always stay in the back of your mind. Also you dont want to see all this money go down the drain over a cheap lil oil pump.
personally. if you have the money i would pauter rods and cp pistons. or if you wanted you could get a set of dcr wisceos with the valve reliefs cut into them but i have seen good and bad about them. cp pistons are used in alot of honda builds and they are pretty light from what i have heard at car meets and such but i dont have any real experience with them. i think if you were on a more budget build crowers are def a good option. extremely strong and they are also pretty light rods. that is what im going to be getting. just a few more months. i think the cam is where its gunna come down to your powerband fore sure. if you can get the turbo to spool by 3500 and it really pours it on at around 3700-3800. and you can rev to 7k.... thats a nice powerband with easy 500wheel horsepower. you are strapping the engine right?
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Ok so I agree with the oil pump. But just so were clear, not that I do not like them and I have actually NEVER ordered one thing through them, I will 99% for sure not be using DCR for any part of this build. I have no patience for a shit run business (my opinion) even if they build the best quality stuff. They have gone the way of high volume and low margins, which they have no man power to hold up to. Bad business model if you dont staff up. Its a tough place for them, they probably can't find the people they need to sustain their quality, but I wont let it ride on my back while trying to get this car done.
So....I think there are other locations that I can get a coated oil pump gears from...done deal I will do this.
Regarding the strapping...I dont really understand what this is and how it works. Do they have to have my block to make the part? What exactly does it do? Does it just take the place of the strength of the balance shafts? I had intended to leave the shafts in, remove the chain and guides. Something bothers me about removing something that is structurally part of the bed plate.
Last edited by 04blusrt_4 : 10-30-2009 at 12:27 PM.
They dont need the whole block just the bedplate for machining. "They" say only certain machine shops are competent enough to understand the process and complete it correctly. Check out this pic can you see the arched area between where the counter weight swings? They shave that flat so you can put big steel blocks to reinforce it.
Also should I use a new crank or just have the entire assembly balanced on my existing one? Wasn't sure if the wear and tear of 60k miles would lessen the stocker's durability.
Correct you cant use the balance shaft at all even for windage it wont fit. Also make sure what bolts you get with it. I was unaware the upgraded bolts cost more through some vendors. Also the vendor I went through gave me stock bolts for the "special" skinny strap at the crank trigger end that has clearance issues. You can kinda see theres stock bedplate bolts holding that last strap on at the very left of my last pic.
So basically I am paying $500 for 4 square pieces of steel and 8 bolts?
And I assume the balance shaft cannot stay with the straps?
Yeah balance shaft has to be removed. 4U2NV didn't have crank straps and was over 800whp...something to consider.
I bought CP pistons, I wasn't too crazy about the design of the J.E's and I think a few mentioned the crown design wasn't all that. Been a while since I researched pistons but yeah. Don't have any tuning problems with 8.5.1 either
Also should I use a new crank or just have the entire assembly balanced on my existing one? Wasn't sure if the wear and tear of 60k miles would lessen the stocker's durability.
I'm not sure on the crank actually. In my opinion you could reuse your crank if the journals are okay and havent seen any bad bearings. But Im no builder thats all speculation based on my research.
Yeah balance shaft has to be removed. 4U2NV didn't have crank straps and was over 800whp...something to consider.
I bought CP pistons, I wasn't too crazy about the design of the J.E's and I think a few mentioned the crown design wasn't all that. Been a while since I researched pistons but yeah. Don't have any tuning problems with 8.5.1 either
He also didn't beat on the car the way it should have been. If you plan on visiting the track alot I would strap it. Totmacher sold me on them his bedplate had cracks from tracking a stock wheeled s3. And once the bedplate goes you need a whole new block. New block is harder to come by then 500$ straps.
He also didn't beat on the car the way it should have been. If you plan on visiting the track alot I would strap it. Totmacher sold me on them his bedplate had cracks from tracking a stock wheeled s3. And once the bedplate goes you need a whole new block. New block is harder to come by then 500$ straps.
He DID race it...there are plenty of videos showing otherwise, and honestly at that much HP if the bedplate cracking were an issue than it would've fallen out in 1 or 2 races, not so much a longevity thing.
I don't need a lesson in bedplates. I went through HELL when I bought my first block. Was totally ruined from the bedplate, and like you said yeah...gotta buy a new one. The previous owner had run a 75 shot and a S3 or some crap...either way he was an idiot, thus proving the tune is more crucial than the hardware in some instances.
What compression are the Arias pistons? Never seen them or heard anything about 'em
He DID race it...there are plenty of videos showing otherwise, and honestly at that much HP if the bedplate cracking were an issue than it would've fallen out in 1 or 2 races, not so much a longevity thing.
I don't need a lesson in bedplates. I went through HELL when I bought my first block. Was totally ruined from the bedplate, and like you said yeah...gotta buy a new one. The previous owner had run a 75 shot and a S3 or some crap...either way he was an idiot, thus proving the tune is more crucial than the hardware in some instances.
What compression are the Arias pistons? Never seen them or heard anything about 'em
He raced it but Im talking about "tracking it" from my research on straps that is where it counts. 4u2nv only made a couple passes down the track nothing spectacular and he didnt run the 800 tune alot from what I hear. Also You gotta base it on more then just 1 car bro. The people I knew with destroyed bedplates made alot more then 1 or 2 passes on the dyno and track. I don't mean to sound like Im lecturing if I am I just like talking about engines.
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